Don't feel discouraged. I had to learn theory on my own because the academic approach makes it sound way more complicated than it actually is. Learning from a practical standpoint may work better for you. All it is, is patterns. And one pattern can yield many different things.
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Do I need to know theory to play?
- Thread starter CPR4LIFE
- Start date
Great observation, and I don't disagree.
But there is music theory before Jimi Hendrix, and then there's music theory after Jimi Hendrix. He changed the music theory textbooks. Maybe it was only a few inches, but he moved the ball forward.
Perhaps in order to be a pioneer in certain areas like Hendrix, there are other roads you don't get a chance to explore. Nobody is good at everything. (Or at least, nobody has the time to learn how to become good at everything, especially if you don't live to see your 28th birthday.) Stravinsky didn't write a lot of fugues, for example, but he certainly had an elite-level understanding of music theory.
Personally I think Hendrix's elite-tier music-theory genius (perhaps the word 'savant' applies?) was in the fields of sonority and orchestration. Many people have had the experience, upon hearing Hendrix for the first time, that they are listening to something other than a guitar, or hearing more than three musicians onstage, or experiencing a familiar song in a completely unexpected way (Star Spangled Banner), or even opening up vast cosmic mind-out-of-body new horizons.
For some people maybe, grammar never bothered James Joyce much
Every day about a million bassists all around the world play a standard Rock'n'roll 12 bar groove. Do they all know they are playing arpeggiated 6th or diminished 7th chords? Maybe half of them do. The other half just figured it out, maybe in 5 hours, maybe in 5 seconds, but they all sound the same
Jimi didn't have enough theory to strap his guitar on the right way upGreat question! Most of Jimi's music isn't really my cup of tea, so I've never really studied his life. But here are 3 brief arguments (not an exhaustive list) in favor of Hendrix having at least an "above average" knowledge of music history:
- Miles Davis dug his music and wanted to record with him.
- Not only are his compositions among the most frequently-covered by rock musicians, some of his songs are becoming jazz standards as well.
- There's a chord named after him.
I would love to see the sheet music for Star Spangled Banner, that would really be somethingGreat observation, and I don't disagree.
But there is music theory before Jimi Hendrix, and then there's music theory after Jimi Hendrix. He changed the music theory textbooks. Maybe it was only a few inches, but he moved the ball forward.
Perhaps in order to be a pioneer in certain areas like Hendrix, there are other roads you don't get a chance to explore. Nobody is good at everything. (Or at least, nobody has the time to learn how to become good at everything, especially if you don't live to see your 28th birthday.) Stravinsky didn't write a lot of fugues, for example, but he certainly had an elite-level understanding of music theory.
Personally I think Hendrix's elite-tier music-theory genius (perhaps the word 'savant' applies?) was in the fields of sonority and orchestration. Many people have had the experience, upon hearing Hendrix for the first time, that they are listening to something other than a guitar, or hearing more than three musicians onstage, or experiencing a familiar song in a completely unexpected way (Star Spangled Banner), or even opening up vast cosmic mind-out-of-body new horizons.
It even has TAB, wow!!
Jimi Hendrix "The Star Spangled Banner" Guitar Tab in E Major - Download & Print
I didn't know him, so I don't know for sure. It also depends on how you define music theory. I believe (and see it frequently on TB) the definition is that music theory is an explanation of what was played; it's clearly not a set of rules. There is a difference between know that a lick does sound good over a certain chord and knowing why it sounds good. Hendrix certainly knew the former, there is absolutely no evidence that he knew the latter.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
We’re all different, we take different paths. I could never read music. I felt like a musical dyslexia sufferer but still I can play and have played for over 50 years. I still write music although I can’t notate it. So what. Play from the gut, try to lock into the basics of chord structures, navigate the fretboard, feel the groove and just enjoy it. Music is a gift. Embrace it.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
There is a difference between knowing theory and reading standard notation.
It can’t hurt. I can’t say the same for your instructor however.
If he is causing you to lose interest, he needs to find another line of work. You need to find an instructor that knows how to communicate.
As for theroy, it is just that, a theroy that comes with rules and standards. When I took it, pretty much it just gave me names for what I already knew. It was like “oh, that’s what that is called.”
While I doubt it made me a better musician, it certainly made me a better band mate, one that is able to communicate with clarity, which can reduce a lot of stress getting a musical conflict resolved.
Please don’t give up on learning, see if you can find another instructor. If you are serious about being a serious musician, this is a collection of great tools that will make your life a lot easier down the road.
Wow! I never expected this thread to take off like it did. There is a tremendous amount to unpack here and I thank you all for commenting!
See, I don't even know enough to communicate everything so you have an understanding of where I am. I've taken up the bass late in life (I'll be 52 sooner than I care to be) and right now I don't know anyone here that I can play with to learn more. So I play along to songs on YouTube or in my own collection. I'm not looking to compose any songs and I highly doubt that I'll ever be good enough to play in a band. What I'd really like to be able to do is play songs I like and perhaps be able to play with some other people now and then. I've only lived here 2 years though and meeting people is hard at this stage of life. And it's also intimidating because I don't have much confidence in my abilities. I'm ok with roots & fifths, but that's about it. The fifth above still throws me. Like how do I know when it is and how do I know when it isn't? Octaves...eh...not always sure on that either. I've figured out the key of a few songs by ear (Please Please Me for one), but I know it'll take a long time to get any good at that.
So I guess what I was getting at is since so much of just the "basic" theory is so confusing to me should I talk with him about maybe easing off the theory and just learn songs and play? And try to understand it as I go? Like maybe I learn a song and after I've learned it we discuss some of the theory with it?
Also, and this may sound foolish...but 1) I decided on bass because I was intimidated by guitar and I thought bass would be easier...4 strings and you play one note at a time so how hard can that be? Boy was I wrong! I mean I didn't expect it to be simple but man... and 2) I started spinning my mom's Beatles records on my Snoopy record player when I was 3 and haven't stopped listening to music since...so I truly thought it would come to me easier than it has. And I think that last bit frustrates me too.
I really do appreciate all the advice and support...and it seems y'all are enjoying this discussion so I'm glad if you got anything out of it!
See, I don't even know enough to communicate everything so you have an understanding of where I am. I've taken up the bass late in life (I'll be 52 sooner than I care to be) and right now I don't know anyone here that I can play with to learn more. So I play along to songs on YouTube or in my own collection. I'm not looking to compose any songs and I highly doubt that I'll ever be good enough to play in a band. What I'd really like to be able to do is play songs I like and perhaps be able to play with some other people now and then. I've only lived here 2 years though and meeting people is hard at this stage of life. And it's also intimidating because I don't have much confidence in my abilities. I'm ok with roots & fifths, but that's about it. The fifth above still throws me. Like how do I know when it is and how do I know when it isn't? Octaves...eh...not always sure on that either. I've figured out the key of a few songs by ear (Please Please Me for one), but I know it'll take a long time to get any good at that.
So I guess what I was getting at is since so much of just the "basic" theory is so confusing to me should I talk with him about maybe easing off the theory and just learn songs and play? And try to understand it as I go? Like maybe I learn a song and after I've learned it we discuss some of the theory with it?
Also, and this may sound foolish...but 1) I decided on bass because I was intimidated by guitar and I thought bass would be easier...4 strings and you play one note at a time so how hard can that be? Boy was I wrong! I mean I didn't expect it to be simple but man... and 2) I started spinning my mom's Beatles records on my Snoopy record player when I was 3 and haven't stopped listening to music since...so I truly thought it would come to me easier than it has. And I think that last bit frustrates me too.
I really do appreciate all the advice and support...and it seems y'all are enjoying this discussion so I'm glad if you got anything out of it!
I hear chord changes as numbers. If you can learn a songs' chords by numbers, you can transpose into any key.
For example, below are the 1 4 and 5 chords for all 12 keys. Learn these and you can play any 12-bar blues song.
Good luck.
You may also want to checkout on youtube the "nashville numbering system" It's used by many in the studios so you can transpose any song quickly.
For example, below are the 1 4 and 5 chords for all 12 keys. Learn these and you can play any 12-bar blues song.
Good luck.
You may also want to checkout on youtube the "nashville numbering system" It's used by many in the studios so you can transpose any song quickly.
Instruments absolutely came first. Theory was developed to try to rationalize an understanding of why certain things work better than others.
Great thread man! I think you got it right there - back off a tad and just learn some simple songs. If you can find a buddy that would be even better. Playing along with YouTube is ok, but it won't slow down and wait for you where a buddy will! Sounds like you are at the stage where the patterns aren't making themselves clear to you yet, but they will with experience. Maybe start with some 12 bar blues, a three chord trick, you will start to see where those Is and IVs and Vs fit together and, next thing you know, you will be hearing them all over the place. Do not be dispirited my man, I think it's brilliant to take up music at the age of 51. There is a ton of good advice in these threads but also a little bit of dogma - don't assume that because some people find theory helpful everyone needs it the same, some guys don't think that way but they still rock out with the best. Keep spanking the plank!
