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Do I really need a 610 or 410?

C

CajunBassPlayer

Jul 6, 2017
20
33
Baton Rouge, La
Disclosures
None
#1
I am new to the bass world. Only been playing a couple or 3 years. I played guitar for a very long time. Way back when, I was in a band and the bass player had a Peavey 410 bass cab and an Ampeg 610 cab. Both cabs brought rolling thunder to the stage. I now play in an old guys band and we play mostly classic rock and rocking blues.We play out about 6 times per year and always in not-so-big venues. We don't do bars anymore. So now I have bad GAS for a 610 or 410 cab. I play an Am P bass thru an SansAmp TECH 21 NYC and Crown power amp into a JF Jack 112.
Should I just get one of those metric ton beauties or stick with what I have.
BTW: I am retired and have to funds today (maybe not tomorrow) to blow on a new cab.
 
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#2
I'd hold on for a while. Take a look around and see if you really need a 410 or 610 cab. It seems (around these parts anyway) very few bands are blasting away at 120+db's these days. Also more establishments seems to be dining in these days. It appears everything is downsizing.
You maybe alright for now. Add another matching 112 cab later if needed.
I'm sure other opinions will vary.
 
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#3
40-50 years ago, many-10 cabs were the only practical way to move a lot of air and keep it musical. But they weigh a ton per dB and the rectangular array configurations are very "beamy". 15s, and in particular 12 inch bass drivers have gotten a lot better in the past 20 years or so. If I were you, I'd get a second matching 12, or if you really want speaker area, get an in-line 212 that you could eventually stack a second onto, end-on-end, to make a vertical linear array.
 
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#5
I have toured with SVTs and 810's. These days that's no longer necessary. We don't need big cabs to move a lot of air or to get a good sound.

I use 2 Barefaced 112 cabs (one weighs 21lbs, the other 26lbs) with either a 500 watt or 700 watt amp and I can keep up with the loud guitarists on the biggest stages. I can use just one cab on small gigs.
 
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#6
I played through an 8 10 e for years. Before that , I was running through either a 4 10 cab alone or a 4 10 paired with an 18. A couple of years ago , my back convinced me to get a 2 12 av cab (about 100 lbs. lighter than the 8 10.) It has handled every gig I have played since and I still get told on a regular basis to turn it down. This has included some fairly large venues and a few out door gigs. While I think every bass player should have the privilege of running through the big iron sometime in their lives (lets face it , they DO look great and sound incredible) there are lots of good smaller and lighter options available these days. Five years ago , I would have considered that last statement sacrilege.
 
#7
How loud do you (or how loud does your drummer) play?

When you gig, does the whole band go through the PA or just vocals?

If the answers are “pretty loud” and “just vocals” then yes, you might want a decent 410 or even a 610 to fill out the lows.

If not, then a 2nd 112 might give you a nice volume bump if needed. Or if it ain’t broke / save the cash etc.
 
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#8
Well, the funny thing is that you don't address the most important thing concerning your question:
How loud is your band and how loud do you need to go / how much is your current rig capable of ?
And if your current rig is able to do what you need - namely making the bass loud enough so that you can hear it and if your rig needs to carry the venue during gigs, how loud is the bass out there ...

The times of 410/610/810 rigs were times where the PA systems were not that great and already struggling with voices and drums - since bass is somewhat hungry when it comes to amplification capacity, it was wise to bring enough SPL to carry.
Right now, SPL have gotten a much smaller footprint and price tag - both for bass and for FOH.
So when you use an outstanding 212 cab, such as the barefaced or greenboy designs, you will get as much raw power out of them as you might ever need, and these are typically smaller than 410 cabs.
 
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#10
Papuzzo said:
All the way down to In Ear Monitoring and going ampless. Check the classified ads before buying anything 4X10 and bigger as everyone is selling their monster rigs to raise money to buy a 1x12 cab instead. In a few years, those who still have a 2x12 will be "Old School".
Click to expand...

It would be smart to keep some personal gear around. I don't play in ABBA. I do a lot of big stage as well as house concerts. I play street festivals. Big PA. There might be backline but I prefer to use my rig. I play small restaurants with a drummer and a vibes player. Some times sax too. No PA. How will IEM help me there? I play sessions with numerous musicians live and in studio. How will IEM help me there? There were clubs, pre Covid, that have money invested in PA for their needs. The engineers are quite responsive to you having an amp and cab on stage but will not only DI but offer to mic your cab. I play wakes and parties. How will IEM help me there?

The players I play with want to hear and feel my sound. What I do in the air increases the fun of the performance. One day I'm with a singer songwriter the next a quartet that sounds like Gentle Giant or the Yellow Jackets. The quartet doesn't need a PA so how would IEMs help me?

I've heard these proclamations before. If anyone had listened no one would be playing a Tele through a Deluxe Reverb. Because Solid State. The end of Tubes! There would only be drum machines and sampling. No live bassists and possibly only synth players.

Ever walk into the drum section of a music store. Who is buying all those acoustic drums? Salesman used to say get rid of that mixing desk yet they are still in use. Get rid of that analog tape machine. Then all the rockers were buying them up because they loved the saturation of tape. Get rid of your vinyl. Look how that turned out. Get rid of your upright get an EB. Get rid of your EB get and upright. Why do I see Fender Rhodes pianos on pro stages all the time? Isn't a keyboard controller and a laptop sufficient?

So could we use it all and use what we like?
 
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#12
chadds said:
How will IEM help me there?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you feel attacked and ridiculed for your choices in gear. You were not. I am only stating what I see happening all around me, and that is serious downsizing. Most bands that play out often have already moved to IEM, they roll in and are ready to play in less than an hour with perfect mixes for both themselves and the audience. Guitarists using just a Helix, bassist sometimes using just a small preamp pedal. Bands that play small venues are using small combo amps or 1x12 cabs on kickback stands more than they are using 8x10s.

I see a lot, and I mean A LOT, of used gear for sale where the owner has moved to IEM and no longer needs to schlep their 80lb 4x10 cabs all over the place anymore. I even saw an ad for a SWR Goliath II where the owner said "if you can pick it up and haul it out of here you can have it for free." Others no longer need all that volume and have moved to 2x10s or a 1x12 or at most a pair of 1x12s. You can pick up a fantastic used 4x10 for half of what a decent used 2x12 costs. The used market is saturated with old, heavy 4x10s, 2x15s, 6x10s, 8x10s. There's a reason for that, I'm sure. If someone buys a 4x10 today it is only because it has Neo speakers and weighs less than 50lbs.
 
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#13
chadds said:
It would be smart to keep some personal gear around. I don't play in ABBA. I do a lot of big stage as well as house concerts. I play street festivals. Big PA. There might be backline but I prefer to use my rig. I play small restaurants with a drummer and a vibes player. Some times sax too. No PA. How will IEM help me there? I play sessions with numerous musicians live and in studio. How will IEM help me there? There were clubs, pre Covid, that have money invested in PA for their needs. The engineers are quite responsive to you having an amp and cab on stage but will not only DI but offer to mic your cab. I play wakes and parties. How will IEM help me there?

The players I play with want to hear and feel my sound. What I do in the air increases the fun of the performance. One day I'm with a singer songwriter the next a quartet that sounds like Gentle Giant or the Yellow Jackets. The quartet doesn't need a PA so how would IEMs help me?

I've heard these proclamations before. If anyone had listened no one would be playing a Tele through a Deluxe Reverb. Because Solid State. The end of Tubes! There would only be drum machines and sampling. No live bassists and possibly only synth players.

Ever walk into the drum section of a music store. Who is buying all those acoustic drums? Salesman used to say get rid of that mixing desk yet they are still in use. Get rid of that analog tape machine. Then all the rockers were buying them up because they loved the saturation of tape. Get rid of your vinyl. Look how that turned out. Get rid of your upright get an EB. Get rid of your EB get and upright. Why do I see Fender Rhodes pianos on pro stages all the time? Isn't a keyboard controller and a laptop sufficient?

So could we use it all and use what we like?
Click to expand...

Well said I as once told on this forum “change is hard for some”, to that I say and too easy for others.
Everone has different needs, the prevailing attitude seems to be IEM and trust the sound guys and their system and judgement ... what you or your band needs or wants is secondary to what the sound person deems necessary. Oh and what’s easy.
 
#15
Papuzzo said:
Sounds like you feel attacked and ridiculed for your choices in gear. You were not. I am only stating what I see happening all around me, and that is serious downsizing. Most bands that play out often have already moved to IEM, they roll in and are ready to play in less than an hour with perfect mixes for both themselves and the audience. Guitarists using just a Helix, bassist sometimes using just a small preamp pedal. Bands that play small venues are using small combo amps or 1x12 cabs on kickback stands more than they are using 8x10s.

I see a lot, and I mean A LOT, of used gear for sale where the owner has moved to IEM and no longer needs to schlep their 80lb 4x10 cabs all over the place anymore. I even saw an ad for a SWR Goliath II where the owner said "if you can pick it up and haul it out of here you can have it for free." Others no longer need all that volume and have moved to 2x10s or a 1x12 or at most a pair of 1x12s. You can pick up a fantastic used 4x10 for half of what a decent used 2x12 costs. The used market is saturated with old, heavy 4x10s, 2x15s, 6x10s, 8x10s. There's a reason for that, I'm sure. If someone buys a 4x10 today it is only because it has Neo speakers and weighs less than 50lbs.
Click to expand...

Someone might be trapped in their house..:):):):)

I don't feel attacked. I feel the freedom to say that on this forum people say things like they are true. How many times did posters say the SVT is the most used bass amp? What they are saying is for the type of music they watch or listen to.

Yes downsizing is a thing. I did it in 1972. From a Marshall Major on a flatback SVT and Sunn 2000s on a V4B and a Leslie 147 to a 1x15 Polytone. I immediately played San Francisco's Golden Gate Park into a huge PA with giant JBL side fills.

Now my advice is to be modular. Being able to carry the room or outside regardless of what PA is provided is being a responsible musician.
 
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#17
I used a Mesa full stack for loud metalz for years, then downsized it to a single 4x10 and it delivered. Once I got a 1x12 (Mesa PH) I discovered it did great in my non-metal bands. I thought I might want to get a little loud again one day or at least keep up my guitar amp (Dual Rec Tremoverb into a 2x12) and got a second one. Been happy with this modular and small footprint setup. I havent played a gig in a good while but I really enjoy even just practicing with an awesome setup.
 
#18
No. You don’t need a large rig for small venues.

I use my Mesa Boogie Walkabout 12—4Ω combo, and it’s absolutely fine. I have a matching 12 extension, and I’ve never used it... and my drummer hits pretty hard!

Smaller venues usually means smaller stages, so smaller gear is a plus onstage, not to mention for loading and transport.
 
#19
chris_b said:
I have toured with SVTs and 810's. These days that's no longer necessary. We don't need big cabs to move a lot of air or to get a good sound.

I use 2 Barefaced 112 cabs (one weighs 21lbs, the other 26lbs) with either a 500 watt or 700 watt amp and I can keep up with the loud guitarists on the biggest stages. I can use just one cab on small gigs.
Click to expand...
Thank you for posting.:)

The thing I have always wondered about this is that yes, modern speakers/cabs have better low end extension and/or more efficient but are they that much better using much less total speaker area that they can equal or surpass the volume capabilities of the old school cabs? I guess so eh?

It always seemed to me that one still needs a certain amount of “rubber to the road” so to speak. Like having a vehicle with high power but having to use it with tiny tires.

It’s pretty awesome that today one can use a pair of 12’s and get the volume & bottom end of an 810. So far I’ve preferred 12’s and 15’s to 10’s. All single speaker and sufficient for my current gigging needs. I tend to be louder at home where I often pair them up for a fuller sound.

Do you vertically stack them?
 

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