Do I really need a 610 or 410?

[Sascha Erni]

I play through two 112 cabs, but am considering a lighter-weight 610 for the heavy/rock band. Not for volume reasons, even one of the 112s is enough for stage sound or practice (we own a pretty good PA). It's more of an image / stage presence thing. Around here, people expect to see gear onstage. A band I’m friends with actually uses dummy cabs for that reason only, they actually play through their IEM system.

But all things considered, I’ll probably stick to the 2x112 solution. Looks “rock” enough for my taste, and is highly flexible for other projects without full PA support, too.

 

[Bassdirty]

It would be smart to keep some personal gear around. I don't play in ABBA. I do a lot of big stage as well as house concerts. I play street festivals. Big PA. There might be backline but I prefer to use my rig. I play small restaurants with a drummer and a vibes player. Some times sax too. No PA. How will IEM help me there? I play sessions with numerous musicians live and in studio. How will IEM help me there? There were clubs, pre Covid, that have money invested in PA for their needs. The engineers are quite responsive to you having an amp and cab on stage but will not only DI but offer to mic your cab. I play wakes and parties. How will IEM help me there?

The players I play with want to hear and feel my sound. What I do in the air increases the fun of the performance. One day I'm with a singer songwriter the next a quartet that sounds like Gentle Giant or the Yellow Jackets. The quartet doesn't need a PA so how would IEMs help me?

I've heard these proclamations before. If anyone had listened no one would be playing a Tele through a Deluxe Reverb. Because Solid State. The end of Tubes! There would only be drum machines and sampling. No live bassists and possibly only synth players.

Ever walk into the drum section of a music store. Who is buying all those acoustic drums? Salesman used to say get rid of that mixing desk yet they are still in use. Get rid of that analog tape machine. Then all the rockers were buying them up because they loved the saturation of tape. Get rid of your vinyl. Look how that turned out. Get rid of your upright get an EB. Get rid of your EB get and upright. Why do I see Fender Rhodes pianos on pro stages all the time? Isn't a keyboard controller and a laptop sufficient?

So could we use it all and use what we like?

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're in the market for IEMs?

Seriously though.. the main point people are making are quite valid:

The "big ole" cabs of yesteryear are just that- big, ole, heavy, cabs.. and that's all they are. Speaker Tech and cab design have gotten so much better over the past 40+ years? (wow, the 70s was almost 50 years ago).

I use 2 112 cabs and its plenty. (I do always have PA support for the clubs tho).

Its like this, see: If youre playing small intimate stages, 2 112s will be plenty.

If youre playing large stages/or even arenas 2 112s will be plenty, as you will have PA support. (if you are playing large stages without PA support, theres more problems going on than just your cabinet selection.)

T$

Do you vertically stack them?

I stack mine diagonally. J/k
Sounded funny at the time.

 

[chadds]

While I don't use a 4x10 I will defend your right to use one.

Serious question. Do you know what you sound like past your knees?

I hear a lot of bands. Their bassists have the newest kit and invariably they sound like fart burp. It could be too much eq., too low action, playing too forcefully and or gain staging.

I ask this here because I've seen folks with the newest more portable gear and it sounds like poo. That bigger kit turned down can make that nice pillow for the band. That full bass standing right in front of the cab that some minimal gear will produce can get lost a few feet from there. The extreme of course is an Acoustic 360 where you hear it outside the club. Anyway my choice is a happy medium erring on the side of best sound with portability a secondary consideration. I use a lot of watts and excellent Bergantino kit so it does sound good on stage and out front.

So no fridges for me but 4x10, 3x10, 2x12 for mid to bigger rooms. I did see Gary Grainger using 2x12 Tec and it was meh. Highs Mids but the bass was hinted at. Next time I saw him he had two 4x10s. We are all different players with different tone goals and touch so I'm not saying do what I do! I am saying depending on the room an AER Basic Performer is all I need and others 2x12 is present but just adequate. Having a little more always works because I can turn it down. I can't always know before hand what the room will require. Hotels! Very dead combined with hard surfaces. Or you have to set up on tile and carpet with a 15 floor atrium above. Eeek!

My band size and instrument complement changes too. A cab that slots in the mix perfectly can be meh if I'm the only instrument below the bass drum tuned to a "bap" when the rest of the blues band is guitars and vocals. There is nothing down there! I tried again in the same club and ended up bringing a 5 string & medium cab and it was perfect. The honeys jumped on the dance floor the whole night. The 4 string with 2x12 was heard but not felt.

 

[Sid Fang]

...So could we use it all and use what we like?

Yes. Except for stacking 410s on 115s, which remains an Abomination.

 

[squarepeg]

Yes. Except for stacking 410s on 115s, which remains an Abomination.

210s on an 18 is worse.

 

[groove pump]

I had a 4x10 that sounded pretty good. That was back when I had access to a van.

Now that I have a smaller car, I've been liking having a pair of 2x10 cabs. Only one extra trip for loading in or out, I can do the smaller rig option by schlepping just one of them depending on the setting... I really don't miss anything from the 4x10, but it would probably fun to play through one if I could transport it.

 

[rickwebb]

yes.

 

[CajunBassPlayer]

OKay Gang... thank you for all the responses. I am going to stick with the 112 for now. I built the thing using a Bill Fitzmaurice plan. It has a 6 tweeter array on the front that gets drowned out if I play loud. I'll probably build another 112 using the same plans. The 112 puts out a ton of sound and gets down to about 24hz. A lot of bottom for a one twelve.. Now that we have the Coronvid 19 it looks like the live music scene is dead for the foreseeable future. In fact our band is on indefinite break. We'll see how things go in the next 6 months. By the way I do woodworking and if anyone needs a birdhouse, squirrel feeder or really nice worktable. let me know. thanks again..
Robert Aucoin, PharmD retired.

 

[JimmyM]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're in the market for IEMs?

Seriously though.. the main point people are making are quite valid:

The "big ole" cabs of yesteryear are just that- big, ole, heavy, cabs.. and that's all they are. Speaker Tech and cab design have gotten so much better over the past 40+ years?

Better to who?

 

[lokikallas]

410 is cool, a three way 15 ala greenboy style works and 2x12 can do it, but I’ve yet to get away with a 210 or a 1x15 that can do the job in every situation.

 

[Sid Fang]

Better to who?

Better to my back, better to my ears.

 

[bobyoung53]

I am new to the bass world. Only been playing a couple or 3 years. I played guitar for a very long time. Way back when, I was in a band and the bass player had a Peavey 410 bass cab and an Ampeg 610 cab. Both cabs brought rolling thunder to the stage. I now play in an old guys band and we play mostly classic rock and rocking blues.We play out about 6 times per year and always in not-so-big venues. We don't do bars anymore. So now I have bad GAS for a 610 or 410 cab. I play an Am P bass thru an SansAmp TECH 21 NYC and Crown power amp into a JF Jack 112.
Should I just get one of those metric ton beauties or stick with what I have.
BTW: I am retired and have to funds today (maybe not tomorrow) to blow on a new cab.

Get a metric ton beauty, you'll never regret it, there is no reason not to. When I'm back in MA and play in medium size rooms or larger I'll use one of my metric ton beauties in my avatar and although, yes they are a pain to move once they're set up all that pain goes away and bliss takes over.

 

[bobyoung53]

112 is the new 410.

Not in my part of MA.

 

[JimmyM]

Better to my back, better to my ears.

If you say so.

 

[Guild B301]

It all depends on how you want to sound. Since you’re using IEMs, you won’t hear the sound from the speakers. But there is a difference in the frequency response of the speakers. I haven’t found anything that sounds the same as my old Marshall 8 x 10’s. Will the audience notice the difference? That depends on how good your FOH sound man is.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I am new to the bass world. Only been playing a couple or 3 years. I played guitar for a very long time. Way back when, I was in a band and the bass player had a Peavey 410 bass cab and an Ampeg 610 cab. Both cabs brought rolling thunder to the stage. I now play in an old guys band and we play mostly classic rock and rocking blues.We play out about 6 times per year and always in not-so-big venues. We don't do bars anymore. So now I have bad GAS for a 610 or 410 cab. I play an Am P bass thru an SansAmp TECH 21 NYC and Crown power amp into a JF Jack 112.
Should I just get one of those metric ton beauties or stick with what I have.
BTW: I am retired and have to funds today (maybe not tomorrow) to blow on a new cab.

2 210s or 2 212s. Either one. The 12s shiuld be louder, and fuller. Which helps when you're only using one. But, heavier. 210s are light, and nice as well. Shop around and find what you like

 

[Frunobulax]

I am new to the bass world. Only been playing a couple or 3 years. I played guitar for a very long time. Way back when, I was in a band and the bass player had a Peavey 410 bass cab and an Ampeg 610 cab. Both cabs brought rolling thunder to the stage. I now play in an old guys band and we play mostly classic rock and rocking blues.We play out about 6 times per year and always in not-so-big venues. We don't do bars anymore. So now I have bad GAS for a 610 or 410 cab. I play an Am P bass thru an SansAmp TECH 21 NYC and Crown power amp into a JF Jack 112.
Should I just get one of those metric ton beauties or stick with what I have.
BTW: I am retired and have to funds today (maybe not tomorrow) to blow on a new cab.

I use a 610 for my loud rock band. The extra height is advantageous as it allows me to hear how I sound..thus I don't have to drive amps and cabs as hard as I would a 410.
Ive found my 410's are usually aimed at the back of my legs and often I'm not hearing what the audience is hearing. Plus I have to turn up everything to hear through the competing guitars and drums. Extra stress on amps, drivers etc etc.

How I look at things now is I let the conditions determine my choices. So, I like to keep a variety of cabs so I can hopefully make the best choice.

 

[BassmanPaul]

I'm afraid there are too many reasonable, rational responses here. The correct answer is, if you are GASing for it, then you need it.

No wonder you're a square peg!!

 

[klejst]

Depends on if you DO need one of those cabs or not. Only you can really decide, all factors considered. I went from a 2x10 to a 4x10 to two 4x10's to 8x10 to 6x10 to 2x15 and now to a 2x12. I love my 2x12 cab, to me it's the best of all speaker worlds in a smaller and lighter package that gets the job done. What does it for me is tone, cost and specs (build quality, features, materials and electrons used, wattage etc)...but also size and weight is good factors to consider as well, trust me your back will thank you.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

It would be smart to keep some personal gear around. I don't play in ABBA. I do a lot of big stage as well as house concerts. I play street festivals. Big PA. There might be backline but I prefer to use my rig. I play small restaurants with a drummer and a vibes player. Some times sax too. No PA. How will IEM help me there? I play sessions with numerous musicians live and in studio. How will IEM help me there? There were clubs, pre Covid, that have money invested in PA for their needs. The engineers are quite responsive to you having an amp and cab on stage but will not only DI but offer to mic your cab. I play wakes and parties. How will IEM help me there?

The players I play with want to hear and feel my sound. What I do in the air increases the fun of the performance. One day I'm with a singer songwriter the next a quartet that sounds like Gentle Giant or the Yellow Jackets. The quartet doesn't need a PA so how would IEMs help me?

I've heard these proclamations before. If anyone had listened no one would be playing a Tele through a Deluxe Reverb. Because Solid State. The end of Tubes! There would only be drum machines and sampling. No live bassists and possibly only synth players.

Ever walk into the drum section of a music store. Who is buying all those acoustic drums? Salesman used to say get rid of that mixing desk yet they are still in use. Get rid of that analog tape machine. Then all the rockers were buying them up because they loved the saturation of tape. Get rid of your vinyl. Look how that turned out. Get rid of your upright get an EB. Get rid of your EB get and upright. Why do I see Fender Rhodes pianos on pro stages all the time? Isn't a keyboard controller and a laptop sufficient?

So could we use it all and use what we like?

Horses for courses, surely? In some instances and for some people IEM is right, and for some it isn't. If I was playing a coffee shop gig I probably wouldn't even take my larger and amp and cabinet, just the smaller combo. I do have a wired IEM but haven't actually used it in anger, though. It works really well for music on airline flights as it blocks extraneous noise very well and sounds pretty good.