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Do I really need to know my modes?
- Thread starter benchpress11782
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Most amateur guitarist I know that dont play jazz have the same issues. The know a few modes up and down the neck and play them like Mrs. Marple plays piano flourishes.……. and be able to understand what the guitar guy is talking about.
I look at Mode’s this way... I like to be a ‘flashy’ bass player. Since I’m an ‘in the pocket’ player, that generally means I can throw in a bunch of turnaround riffs or riffs transitioning between chord changes. Here’s what modes allow me to do:
- Riff using 3 notes per string (full scale) vs. 2 notes per string (pentatonic style). The problem with Pentatonic style is you miss out on the notes that are half step from each other - and those are the best!
- I can find many more opportunities to trill, hammer on, etc. when playing 3 note per string scales.
- I can always find a scales position that lead into the next chord because I’ve memorized all the scale positions
- Never guessing which half steps are going to work. The modes have either a major or minor shape. By knowing which scale position or mode you’re in means never guessing which half steps are going to work.
The last point I think really sets apart the pros from the amateurs. The amateur might be playing a song in Dorian but they think they are in natural minor Aeolian since Aeolian has a minor shape. But, they get burned by the major 6th. Once the pro sees that he is in Dorian, he can play full scale positions all over the neck without guessing (or hoping) which notes will work.
I love to post this pic which, for me, contains all you need to know about modes. Hopefully, you can see how these all connect which is really key to memorizing them and using them on the fly.
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Mastering the sonic shapes and relating them to the music is a big and important step. Congratulations.
The next step after that possibly is to think in terms of scale degrees and notes so you are completely free of shapes and can tie whats under your fingers to the music.. For example, here is a phrase going from the IV7 resolving to the 1maj 7. Passing chromatically down at the end The 1 refers to the root of the 4 chord.
1 3 b7 9 11 13 octave b7 b5 b3 b5 2 octave b7 b13 5. The 5 is the root of the 1 chord
My great jazz instructor persistently recommended this approach and it has paid off. Btw, uou will eventually think from your ear and not numbers, but you will know the scale degrees to use as a concept to think ahead in your solos.
This is an interesting question. I learned all about modes when I attended Berklee
As a bass player I think modes are a great way to begin the art of creating a bassline
Here is how I ultimately figured it out
This is an excerpt from a book I am writing at present entitled “Bass Ala Modes”
Because of the different division of whole steps and half steps and even though we are using the same notes, the quality of each mode sounds different. To some, this is quite obvious but it is an important component of my approach and how I see modal relationships.
Each mode when viewed in 3rds, articulates a specific chord. As a bassist, I view one of my roles as being the person who defines the chord changes. Think of a trio; sax, bass and drums. Since there is no chordal instrument technically, it is my role as bassist to define the chord changes when the sax is soloing or stating the melody.
This is basically how I think and this approach works with all scales
As a bass player I think modes are a great way to begin the art of creating a bassline
Here is how I ultimately figured it out
This is an excerpt from a book I am writing at present entitled “Bass Ala Modes”
Because of the different division of whole steps and half steps and even though we are using the same notes, the quality of each mode sounds different. To some, this is quite obvious but it is an important component of my approach and how I see modal relationships.
Each mode when viewed in 3rds, articulates a specific chord. As a bassist, I view one of my roles as being the person who defines the chord changes. Think of a trio; sax, bass and drums. Since there is no chordal instrument technically, it is my role as bassist to define the chord changes when the sax is soloing or stating the melody.
This is basically how I think and this approach works with all scales
JeezyMcNuggles
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If you're contemplating them at all, why not run through them. It'll only make you a better musician.
If your oeuvre is verges on 100% I-IV-V then skip to some other post. You’ll get by without this stuff.
Have you ever noticed that many bass lines are easier to play in one position than in another position? i.e. Same song, same key, same arrangement, same band, everything the same except your hand’s position on the neck. Learning modes on bass makes it clear why it works that way. Players who have learned modes have a substantial advantage over those who haven’t because their playing is smoother and more economical with less jumping/shifting needed to play a line.
Have you ever noticed that many bass lines are easier to play in one position than in another position? i.e. Same song, same key, same arrangement, same band, everything the same except your hand’s position on the neck. Learning modes on bass makes it clear why it works that way. Players who have learned modes have a substantial advantage over those who haven’t because their playing is smoother and more economical with less jumping/shifting needed to play a line.
Moreover, my students always say that learning modes in 2 octave patterns help them hear better
You're conflating "modes" with "positions."
In truth, any mode can be played in any position.
This is why on a six string bass you can in 1 position cover 2 octaves and a 3rd starting on the low B string.
I think the point was more about “if” you know your modes “position playing” is most definitely easier. It helps you define patterns of whole steps and half steps. And if you can figure that out in one position, you can figure it out in more than one position. And then you could earn them in all keys
Can someone name a (preferably well known) bass line which is obviously modal? Not sure I can differentiate a modal approach from a scalar one.
I certainly don't want to get in an argument about whether or not "So What" is "Dorian mode."
That said, Miles himself plays some Bb's over the Dmin chord (and so do Trane and the rest).
That’s not the point. We were discussing chord scale/modal relationships
Yes Musicians aren’t relegated to strictly adhering to a scale or mode and frankly, if you really know your modes you can go in and out of the scale or mode
Yes Musicians aren’t relegated to strictly adhering to a scale or mode and frankly, if you really know your modes you can go in and out of the scale or mode
Good question. I'm going to let the more learned answer this.
Treble clef....
Bass clef...
