Do older basses sound significantly better?

[-Asdfgh-]

Well.... That's not the only factor, but what are your thoughts?

Vibrations don't "find paths" over the years. A solid body instrument is essentially (to a first order approximation) a flat plate, albeit with a complex outer perimeter, and has a number of vibrational modes based on frequency. As such there is no path for vibrations to follow as it is frequency dependent and people play different notes at different times. You can (and if you go to YouTube you can see they have done) subjected solid body instruments to swept single frequencies with dust placed on top which, in classic physics lesson fashion, to observe the various vibrational modes. There is some limited academic research out there too but I don't have links to hand.

Given how little the surface of a solid body moves under stimulation from playing bass, the sound of the body itself vibrating will be inaudible. It will absorb some vibrations from the string but it will be mostly turning that to heat rather than acoustic energy. Of the whole system there can be resonant peaks but that's what gives you dead spots and is more likely to be a function of the neck than body.

Vibrational modes might change over time but my understanding is that it would be the wood getting stiffer as it dries out and LESS resonant.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

There is a lot of hubbub on guitar forums about the golden age of guitars - those built in 1958-1960. My position is that it’s a great era for musicians as well. Prince, Michael Jackson, Madonna, and I were all born the same year. Madonna and I are still making music….

Kate Bush, 1958.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

We could do it by sound maybe. Old recording of Fender basses that were new then, compared to a new one today might reveal something. But unless it's the same basses being compared to an old recording that won't prove the aging thing. But it could reveal how a new bass in the 50s-60s recorded sounded to a new one today. Although the recording technology has changed a lot since then...

View attachment 5316218

Yeah, that's the only possible way IN THEORY. In real life it's a severely flawed approach that wouldn't tell us anything about the effect of aging because we wouldn't know the exact signal chain, eq settings and other processing on those recordings. Even the choice of strings would affect the tone considerably more than what I would expect from the effect of aging. Which means that any comparisons made with old recordings are 100% worthless for this purpose.

Hence my...
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Yeah, I guess I agree. It's a fun little thought experiment though.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Yeah, that's the only possible way IN THEORY. In real life it's a severely flawed approach that wouldn't tell us anything about the effect of aging because we wouldn't know the exact signal chain, eq settings and other processing on those recordings. Even the choice of strings would affect the tone considerably more than what I would expect from the effect of aging. Which means that any comparisons made with old recordings are 100% worthless for this purpose.


Yeah, I guess I agree. It's a fun little thought experiment though.

Choice of string plus amount of finger gunk on them.

 

[micguy]

Kate Bush, 1958.

Good to know of another surviving 58’er.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

My old friend….Mid 1957, Precision Bass. When new to me in 67’ there was only one small wear mark on the back of the neck. Every mark other than that, I’ll own.
Zoom in on the, thumb-rest/pickup/ area, for 40yrs of wear. Tons of mojo. I’ll dare to say,
a rather magical bass for me. All through my formative years. Fairly light at right around 8.5lb.Very resonant, super comfy neck, on the smaller side. A daily driver for around 25 yrs. To many stories to count. Are older basses better ……..ya some, and this one is.

 

[Koshchei]

I am wondering if the aging of the wood on solid body bass guitars over decades makes.them sound noticeably better than new ones. For example a new Fender P vs one that is 20 or 40 years old?

Answer: No. Sadly.

Properly acoustic instruments (not semi-hollow or chambered) with properly graduated tops take 5-15 years to really come into their own tonally, but solid body instruments don't work the same way. The body is a substrate for mounting the hardware, and while there's certainly *some* impact on how the strings vibrate, time isn't going to change it because they can't flex like a cymbal, the way an acoustic does. The pickups, on the other hand will change the way the instrument sounds as the magnets age and weaken a bit.

I'm not sure about whether laminated tops age (or how long it might take if they do), as they're thick and incredibly stiff when compared to traditional spruce or cedar top plates.

 

[Kirk Bryant]

If you play very long, there will be a few times in your life, that you will you pick up an instrument and just know in your gut that it’s a special piece. It speaks to you in deep, dark and mysterious places. Like meeting a soulmate, you just know it instantly.
About ten years ago, I walked into a music store to pick up a new Bass head, that I had ordered. as i waited, I noticed a vintage (71’ factory Jazz neck) Precision hanging up high. A sales person, said why don’t you play it, I said, I don’t need to, I’ve got some 5 or 6 of those at home. lol
He told me, this is a special bass, and I should try it, so I said OK and I asked him to get it down for me. From the moment I laid my hands on it, I thought, wow this thing is really cool. And I sat down to play it for just a second and then the fellow came out with my new head.
So I handed it right back to the salesperson, said thanks a lot, I’ve gotta grab my head and go. Which I did. By the time I got home I realized I’ve been thinking about it on and off all the way on the drive. And I thought no big deal I’ll get over it. I don’t need it, the more I told myself that, the more I also thought to myself there was something about that instrument that was exceptional . I kept trying to put it out of my head, but I couldn’t get it out of my mind.
I could barely get to sleep, so I set my alarm for when they open in the morning, and called and left a message on the machine that I want to look at it before they sell it to anybody else. I actually woke up before my alarm went off. I called the store at about one minute after they opened and said here’s a credit card number I need to come see that before you sell to anyone else. Guy laughs and said no problem. I went and played it again That afternoon and I told him again, hundred dollar deposit hold it till tomorrow. Of course I played it quite a bit more that day and after telling him I’d come back the next day again I turned around and went back and bought it. This was consignment and I over paid for it at the time, and yet I have zero regrets! Not to mention the fact that it has increased in value since I bought it 10 years ago. Moral of the story is, only you can know if that old bass is better (for you) or not. And, if you find one you think truly is, you snag it quick. Just my 2c.

 

[bassdude51]

Can take 50 P Basses (or whatever) with the same strings and no two of them will sound exactly the same. Each bass is like a finger print. Unique and one of a kind.

Gonna repeat what another TBer posted..........."what is your definition of better?"

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Answer: No. Sadly.

Properly acoustic instruments (not semi-hollow or chambered) with properly graduated tops take 5-15 years to really come into their own tonally, but solid body instruments don't work the same way. The body is a substrate for mounting the hardware, and while there's certainly *some* impact on how the strings vibrate, time isn't going to change it because they can't flex like a cymbal, the way an acoustic does. The pickups, on the other hand will change the way the instrument sounds as the magnets age and weaken a bit.

I'm not sure about whether laminated tops age (or how long it might take if they do), as they're thick and incredibly stiff when compared to traditional spruce or cedar top plates.

Pickups lose (broadband) only about 0.25bB per decade.

 

[Koshchei]

Pickups lose (broadband) only about 0.25bB per decade.

Re pickups: it'd probably behave more like an EQ than a uniform decrease in loudness, but to be perfectly honest about my oldest instruments, I can't tell at all. Too many other factors in the way, such as me getting older, changing tastes/aesthetic, having a different amp, different way of recording, etc.

And to be perfectly blunt about the whole thing: as a musician, I don't care too much how they've changed. I only care about how they sound now (loosely into one of two categories: good or not good), and if they're not up to par and I can't easily rectify the issue, then off they go to market.

 

[Gervais Cote]

If you play very long, there will be a few times in your life, that you will you pick up an instrument and just know in your gut that it’s a special piece. It speaks to you in deep, dark and mysterious places. Like meeting a soulmate, you just know it instantly.
About ten years ago, I walked into a music store to pick up a new Bass head, that I had ordered. as i waited, I noticed a vintage (71’ factory Jazz neck) Precision hanging up high. A sales person, said why don’t you play it, I said, I don’t need to, I’ve got some 5 or 6 of those at home. lol
He told me, this is a special bass, and I should try it, so I said OK and I asked him to get it down for me. From the moment I laid my hands on it, I thought, wow this thing is really cool. And I sat down to play it for just a second and then the fellow came out with my new head.
So I handed it right back to the salesperson, said thanks a lot, I’ve gotta grab my head and go. Which I did. By the time I got home I realized I’ve been thinking about it on and off all the way on the drive. And I thought no big deal I’ll get over it. I don’t need it, the more I told myself that, the more I also thought to myself there was something about that instrument that was exceptional . I kept trying to put it out of my head, but I couldn’t get it out of my mind.
I could barely get to sleep, so I set my alarm for when they open in the morning, and called and left a message on the machine that I want to look at it before they sell it to anybody else. I actually woke up before my alarm went off. I called the store at about one minute after they opened and said here’s a credit card number I need to come see that before you sell to anyone else. Guy laughs and said no problem. I went and played it again That afternoon and I told him again, hundred dollar deposit hold it till tomorrow. Of course I played it quite a bit more that day and after telling him I’d come back the next day again I turned around and went back and bought it. This was consignment and I over paid for it at the time, and yet I have zero regrets! Not to mention the fact that it has increased in value since I bought it 10 years ago. Moral of the story is, only you can know if that old bass is better (for you) or not. And, if you find one you think truly is, you snag it quick. Just my 2c.

My love for my first jazz bass started a very similar way………….
I was shopping for a precision bass and tried several including some active ones of various brands up to a point where my ears were totally confused and I grabbed a Squier Affinity jazz bass just to "reset" my ears with a sound I’m familiar with.
And then BINGO ! This little dirty cheap bass was rumbling, screaming like hell and was extra funky on slapping and popping, couldn’t believe my ears.
So the seller came to me and gave it a try and he also was flabbergasted.
I took back the the bass, played again and same feeling up to a point the seller wanted to buy it for himself !
So I brought the bass to the cash register, paid the $300.00 CDN asked and brought it home knowing very well I would have regretted it for the rest of my life.

 

[B String]

Vibrations don't "find paths" over the years. A solid body instrument is essentially (to a first order approximation) a flat plate, albeit with a complex outer perimeter, and has a number of vibrational modes based on frequency. As such there is no path for vibrations to follow as it is frequency dependent and people play different notes at different times. You can (and if you go to YouTube you can see they have done) subjected solid body instruments to swept single frequencies with dust placed on top which, in classic physics lesson fashion, to observe the various vibrational modes. There is some limited academic research out there too but I don't have links to hand.

Given how little the surface of a solid body moves under stimulation from playing bass, the sound of the body itself vibrating will be inaudible. It will absorb some vibrations from the string but it will be mostly turning that to heat rather than acoustic energy. Of the whole system there can be resonant peaks but that's what gives you dead spots and is more likely to be a function of the neck than body.

Vibrational modes might change over time but my understanding is that it would be the wood getting stiffer as it dries out and LESS resonant.

So why is it that every single upright bass I've ever owned has sounded better after many hours of playing? Some of the most respected Luthiers in the country have told me new basses, no matter how good need at least a year or two of arco playing to help it "open it up". The instrument needs to vibrate to open up for a bigger, better sound. This has been repeated by some of the best bass makers in the country. Nothing is absolute, but to say it makes no difference doesn't make sense either.

 

[Gervais Cote]

So why is it that every single upright bass I've ever owned has sounded better after many hours of playing? Some of the most respected Luthiers in the country have told me new basses, no matter how good need at least a year or two of arco playing to help it "open it up". The instrument needs to vibrate to open up for a bigger, better sound. This has been repeated by some of the best bass makers in the country. Nothing is absolute, but to say it makes no difference doesn't make sense either.

Maybe it’s more about the strings becoming stretched and broken in than anything else.
My Dean Markley Blue Steel round wound strings usually takes a few weeks to get broken in being rough and edgy when brand new and becoming sweeter and softer to the ears later on.
For an electric bass at least………

 

[-Asdfgh-]

So why is it that every single upright bass I've ever owned has sounded better after many hours of playing? Some of the most respected Luthiers in the country have told me new basses, no matter how good need at least a year or two of arco playing to help it "open it up". The instrument needs to vibrate to open up for a bigger, better sound. This has been repeated by some of the best bass makers in the country. Nothing is absolute, but to say it makes no difference doesn't make sense either.

I suspect that the effect is most likely due to loss of moisture and compounds like hemicellulose which is lost as wood continues to cure. Upright bases, with much greater surface area compared to volume, would demonstrate such an effect faster than a solid body instrument.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

All I know is that my Wilkins P bass made out of ancient woods (all over 100 years old at time of manufacture and some significantly older), sounds and feels great. It's the closest to a great early 60s P I played in 1981 and stupidly did not buy. Same for my '67 Starfire, 56 ES140T, and '68 EB-3.

 

[TrustRod]

All I know is that my Wilkins P bass made out of ancient woods (all over 100 years old at time of manufacture and some significantly older), sounds and feels great.

Do the ones he makes out of new wood also sound and play great?

 

[-Asdfgh-]

All I know is that my Wilkins P bass made out of ancient woods (all over 100 years old at time of manufacture and some significantly older), sounds and feels great. It's the closest to a great early 60s P I played in 1981 and stupidly did not buy. Same for my '67 Starfire, 56 ES140T, and '68 EB-3.

A luthier friend likes to use old wood if possible for acoustics due to stability - already fully dried.

 

[TrustRod]

A luthier friend likes to use old wood if possible for acoustics due to stability - already fully dried.

I don't know a single builder that doesn't use fully dry wood. It's a myth that wood continues to only lose moisture as it ages. It also gains moisture.

Also lemon oil or any fingerboard potion does not add moisture to wood. Funny how dry wood is a plus everywhere except the fingerboard where it needs to be fed water by adding a thin coating of oil.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Do the ones he makes out of new wood also sound and play great?

Probably. It's the only Wilkins bass I've tried.