Do speakers have headroom?

[agedhorse]

I dunno, Jimmy. In the case of speakers, it does mean "not there". Speakers don' have power. Those 1,000 watts are not "there". That speaker does not have unused power. Speakers don't have power at all. That's why amps can have headroom and speakers can't.

It doesn't matter, there are MANY kinds of headroom. For example, in a speaker, there is thermal headroom, mechanical headroom, magnetic force headroom, average power headroom, short term headroom and none of these are a single number but an entire set of numbers.

Headroom is directly related to ANY operating criteria limits of a system, power is only one of many parts of the definitions of headroom.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

It doesn't matter, there are MANY kinds of headroom. For example, in a speaker, there is thermal headroom, mechanical headroom, magnetic force headroom, average power headroom, short term headroom and none of these are a single number but an entire set of numbers.

Headroom is directly related to ANY operating criteria limits of a system, power is only one of many parts of the definitions of headroom.

Yeah, I get that. So you're saying a 1000 watt speaker connected to a 100 watt amplifer has "headroom"?

 

[agedhorse]

Yeah, I get that. So you're saying a 1000 watt speaker connected to a 100 watt amplifer has "headroom"?

Yes, it has thermal headroom and mechanical headroom as its design limits are way below what it's being driven by. This means that you can say double the size of the power amp and gain a roughly 1:1 increase in performance.

The SYSTEM's perfomance is limited by the amplifier, but the speaker is capable of more performance.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

The SYSTEM's perfomance is limited by the amplifier, but the speaker is capable of more performance.

Yep, I wasn't considering (power) headroom to be quantified by equipment that is not in the system. Is it fair to say then, the speaker's power headroom is defined by the amp's power? If so, this differs from how an amp's power headroom is considered. With an amp, the system has the ability to apply the power that was once the "headroom" (if you turn up the pre-amp). I guess that's spittling hairs between varying the gain of a piece in the system, verses swapping in a higher-gain piece.

What originally inspired this question was an ad for a speaker that claimed it had "plenty of headroom" - no amp in the ad.

 

[GMC]

Do speakers have headroom? I don't know...I've not tried wearing one as a hat....

 

[beans-on-toast]

Don't forget the back EMF that a speaker has.

A dynamic microphone has headroom. A speaker can act as a mic if it is connected to the input of a preamp and driven with air pressure.

 

[Gizmot]

Don't forget the back EMF that a speaker has.

A dynamic microphone has headroom. A speaker can act as a mic if it is connected to the input of a preamp and driven with air pressure.

Or -- to say it another way, a speaker is a dynamic microphone in reverse (the mic converts acoustic energy to electrical; the speaker converts electrical energy to acoustic energy). A condenser mic has (theoretically) more dynamic range than a dynamic mic, because you're not loosing any signal moving the diaphragm of the capsule back and forth.

 

[Korladis]

Yep, I wasn't considering (power) headroom to be quantified by equipment that is not in the system. Is it fair to say then, the speaker's power headroom is defined by the amp's power? If so, this differs from how an amp's power headroom is considered. With an amp, the system has the ability to apply the power that was once the "headroom" (if you turn up the pre-amp). I guess that's spittling hairs between varying the gain of a piece in the system, verses swapping in a higher-gain piece.

What originally inspired this question was an ad for a speaker that claimed it had "plenty of headroom" - no amp in the ad.

Could just mean that it's robust enough to handle the output power of most amps.

 

[JimmyM]

Yep, I wasn't considering (power) headroom to be quantified by equipment that is not in the system. Is it fair to say then, the speaker's power headroom is defined by the amp's power? If so, this differs from how an amp's power headroom is considered. With an amp, the system has the ability to apply the power that was once the "headroom" (if you turn up the pre-amp). I guess that's spittling hairs between varying the gain of a piece in the system, verses swapping in a higher-gain piece.

What originally inspired this question was an ad for a speaker that claimed it had "plenty of headroom" - no amp in the ad.

OK Chris, we're all going to agree with you just to get you to stop trying to make the same argument over and over while expecting different results It's not a big deal, bro...here...sing along...it'll make you feel better:

 

[agedhorse]

Nothing has headroom by itself, it always has to be relative to the system as a whole, or quantified parts of a system.

Dynamic range, noise floor and headroom are something I deal with every day and for every single product I develop.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

OK Chris, we're all going to agree with you just to get you to stop trying to make the same argument over and over while expecting different results It's not a big deal, bro...here...sing along...it'll make you feel better:

NO, WAIT! Let me try to reframe my argument JUST ONE MORE TIME. Or until I'm right. Maybe I can outlast y'all.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

This did not have enough headroom:

 

[Korladis]

I find that in a technical argument about bass amplification, if AgedHorse is on the opposite side, in most cases I've already lost.

 

[Jefff]

My place has 10 ft ceilings. Does that count?

 

[micguy]

10 foot ceilings count. The term headroom is a way of relating audio voltage/power/excursion headroom - using that exact physical analogy.

You can all adopt whatever definition you want for headroom, but to those of us that design audio gear, the term is pretty well understood. If you agree with aged horse and me, you're in agreement with the widely adopted definition of headroom.

By the way, when you are talking about microphones, at mid and high frequencies, a dynamic mic in most any system has more headroom than a condenser, although either can be designed to where it's not a practical problem.

 

[mexicanyella]

Using Sartori's example about 37,000 posts back, if you attempted to drive, say, a single Celestion Greenback (25 watts) with a GK 800RB head (400 watts), you could say that there is no headroom, or negative headroom.

But my understanding of that term (in this case just referring to watts and speaker power handling) would lead me to think that regardless of the amplifier's output capability, if its volume knob is turned up to .03, and it's only putting out, say, 12 watts RMS at that setting, and the speaker is still reproducing what it's being fed cleanly, then that particular setup with those particular settings has not run out of headroom...regardless of whether or not you could then turn the amp up and blow that speaker's tweedly little voice coil and cone across the room, trailing sparks and flame.

I think of the term as referring to operating conditions and settings, not total potential capability of a component or components.

 

[JimmyM]

10 foot ceilings count. The term headroom is a way of relating audio voltage/power/excursion headroom - using that exact physical analogy.

You can all adopt whatever definition you want for headroom, but to those of us that design audio gear, the term is pretty well understood. If you agree with aged horse and me, you're in agreement with the widely adopted definition of headroom.

By the way, when you are talking about microphones, at mid and high frequencies, a dynamic mic in most any system has more headroom than a condenser, although either can be designed to where it's not a practical problem.

What if you're not singing into the mic and it's unplugged?

 

[micguy]

What if you're not singing into the mic and it's unplugged?

Carrots. Yes, that's the technically correct answer.

If noone is singing into a mic , it's only moving a tiny bit, so, in the case of a dynamiic, in that moment it has tons of headroom - kind of like an ant on the floor of a room with 10 foot ceilings. A dynamic is always working 24/7; it doesn't need to be plugged in to do what it always does. Dynamic mics, like rust, never sleep.

In the case of a condenser, the lack of phantom power means there's no output, so...carrots.

 

[lz4005]

... the speaker is still reproducing what it's being fed cleanly, then that particular setup with those particular settings has not run out of headroom....

Exactly.

"Headroom" with things like mics and speakers is about the part not being pushed to the point where it produces noticeable distortion.

Also known as the problem with the audio in 99% of cell phone video of live shows.

 

[barebones]

If you put a two space head into a four space, you literally double your head room!