Do you have to have a 5?

[Barticus]

I like the idea of having that low B string. As a practical matter though, what are the real benefits of it. I'm not sure if the perks of having those couple of notes out weighs the practical advantages of the lighter weight, smaller neck etc that would be in play 100% of the time.

I am considering options for a very "modern" bass. I have a 6 string and that neck is so wide the instrument is a beast to play. It is not really giving me a good read on the value of the low B. I am still leaning towards a modern 4, but I don't want any personal bias' from my experience with that 6 to influence the choice

My $.02… it’s a tool, although I have several 20v battery powered drills I don’t try to pound nails with them ever, I’d much prefer to just grab the tool that does that job best.

It really comes down to the style of music that you play and whether or not you’re taking advantage of the economy of motion and efficiency of playing across the neck rather than up and down the neck.

I play a bunch of different styles of music from blues to rock to pop to heavy, jazz, you name it, so I’m up and down the fretboard and playing across the neck all of the time depending on the music… and if I need to play an Eb or a C# or a D I don’t want to have to pick up a different instrument, or flip a de-tuner when the entire pallet of the notes I need are just sitting right there at my disposal anytime I need it.

In one of my projects we play from 80s to current rock and pop music and I have songs from the 80s that drop down to C# & D#(Eb)… and then songs from the 2000s that drop down to B or C. Another project I have blues tunes drop down to Eb all the time. I certainly don’t want to detune for that when I have the note sitting there easily accessible.

And just like when playing on a 4 string, there are times when you want to play a note higher up on the E string, because a thicker or muffled sound is needed vs playing down in the first five frets of the A string… the B string provides this option for any notes on the E string as well, this is a great advantage to have.

So for convenience, efficiency of playing, and tone, a five string works for 100% for what I play and a 4 just doesn’t cut it. I also prefer tighter string spacing at the bridge, and don’t want fewer strings with a mile of distance between them which slows down the economy of motion and playing significantly, for me.

The width of the neck is really a result of the width of the strings at the nut and bridge. I prefer 16.5mm-17mm string spacing at the bridge (it’s more efficient for my right hand floating fingers style of playing), which means that the width of my 5’er necks are more similar to a 4 string and less similar to a landing strip of a six string. I do not own any 5’ers that have a big, bulky thick neck… I’ve sold every one that I’ve ever owned for that reason. My max string width is 18mm. All of the 4s I’ve ever owned are also gone because of having fewer than 24 frets and wide 19-20mm string spacing at the bridge… those things just don’t work for me.

I know this is my story, and not yours… but understanding my use case may help you to determine the value of a five string for other players, and why they choose those over fewer strings add you decide for yourself.

PS- I also have one 6 but don’t really need the upper range for my gigging projects so it stays on the wall in my home studio. It also has 16.5mm string spacing, so the neck is not super wide and it’s super comfortable to play as well.

 

[Nedmundo]

I mostly play fours, but fives have been essential. Since getting my first five in 2008, I've played two musical theatre shows, and I needed the B string for both. I think it was only a couple of tracks in each show, but it was essential, with one track going down to low C and another to C#. Later, I played in a cover band that did lots of 1990s material, some of which was recorded with fives, so I played a five on most gigs. A few years after that I did a track for a studio, for which I needed a five.

But I've mostly played in straight-up rock bands, and usually my fours work perfectly there. And sometimes I can get by perfectly with a four, but if I decide to use a five, I'll hit the low D if it fits, as happened the past Monday night at a rehearsal. I think I'm going to use a five for our upcoming set. What the heck.

Longer story: I contemplated getting a five for a few years before I finally took the plunge. This was inspired by playing in a band whose main songwriter frequently wrote in Eb, D, and G#. I got by with a drop tuner on the E string, but other than some of the tracks in D, a five would have been much better. For example, it would have been great to have the D# on the B string right under the G# on the E string, and tracks in Eb would have been easier to manage on a five. With this, I realized the utility of fives, and I wish I had bought a G&L L-1505 or L-2500 instead of an L-1500 back in 2006. It would have been great in that band.

 

[Root 5]

I mostly play 4-string, however, have long thought a 5 makes more sense. As a low frequency instrument, more low frequencies is a good thing.

 

[Core Creek]

I’ve owned a few headless 4 string basses including 2 original Steinberger L series, and I really do like playing them, but I find most out of my price range. Even the new Kiesel’s are crazy expensive. A few of the basses I regret parting with were Carvin B50 5 strings. I had one that was just over 8 pounds, gorgeous, and I should never have parted with it. I think I did because I bought something else and I wasn’t in a situation where I needed a 5, but man I wish I had that one back. I’m sorry to see that Carvin, when it became Kiesel, went from a company that made quality affordable American basses to a wannabe boutique manufacturer that ceased making some of my favorite models. Just as well I suppose, a Kiesel B50 would probably cost almost twice as much as it did when it had Carvin on the headstock.

Yeah, I loved and still love my Carvin gear and walked away from Kiesel for years. But eventually I got a couple of their headless guitars and fell back in love and have a VB6 that I use as my primary bass. If you keep an eye on Reverb there are good deals to be had on the used market.

I loved my B5 but sold it when I moved to 6’s, and honestly, the Icon basses are the most comfortable and ergonomic bass I’ve ever owned…l I still have three!

 

[Avezzano]

For the most part I like your reply a lot. I think I would find nuance in the statement "a five string is a completely different instrument" and would argue that point. It's not that it's so much a totally different instrument is that initially it can create sensory confusion. And I think I know why, having gone through the "conversion" myself.

A lot of us start out as guitar players. We start with "cowboy chords", then progress to "bar chords" (why some folks spell that as barrre illudes me"). But we begin by relating the roots of the chords to the 6th and sometimes 5th strings on a guitar. So we orient 6-1 rather than 1-6. So when we cross over to 4 string bass we're mentally playing a guitar 8basso, missing strings 1 and 2. No problemo. But when we add that low B- it messes with our heads. For whatever reason we can't, initially just ignore that low B strings (as I tried to do the first time I played a 5er). And the spacing gets spread a bit, so it's easy for our hands to get confused. I don't understand that part of it as I can easily move from a 5er with a 43mm nut to one with a 48mm nut.

A friend of mine told me something that I initially scoffed at. He said, when going to a 5, put your 4 under the bed for 6 months. He was mostly right. It took me about 6 months to become comfortable on a 5 and a year to feel natural with it in my hands. But the diligence of adapting to a 5 was worth it... and necessary in my case.

I guess my question is; What's the point of a 4 if you can play a 5 well? And yeah.. in modern times 5 has become the defacto standard- in spite of 90% of basses hanging on guitar store walls is still 4 string. I wonder how things might change were the ratio reversed? I guess my guitar crossover analogy proves itself (in a different way) at guitar stores .

"What's the point of a 4 if you can play a 5 well?" well... because (as I dared to say on my previous entry!) the 4 for me still continue being a completely different instrument than the 5. Even after decades of playing both. Even if now about both it feels like wearing a glove. Not different like a trumpet and a piano, obviously; but when you unhook the 4 from your wall at home and put it in the bag, you know that tonight you are going to play "differently". I would say maybe more like trumpet and flugelhorn: different timbre, different approach to the tunes... each instrument speaks to you in a different way. Maybe I drunk too much coffee, this morning...

 

[motoman]

I have two one electric one acoustic

 

[totalnoob]

Even if now about both it feels like wearing a glove.

What do you mean by this? It seems like something is missing from that sentence.

 

[Avezzano]

What do you mean by this? It seems like something is missing from that sentence.

Nothing special: thirty years ago switching between 4 and 5 was a bit disorienting for me, at first. You know: muting that always ringing low B, hitting the wrong string etc. After a few months and more and more, when I play a fiver, my hands and head know what to do and where to go. Exactly as it is with a four...

 

[totalnoob]

I still don't get the glove comment but ok.

 

[sanray]

I mostly play fours, but fives have been essential. Since getting my first five in 2008, I've played two musical theatre shows, and I needed the B string for both. I think it was only a couple of tracks in each show, but it was essential, with one track going down to low C and another to C#. Later, I played in a cover band that did lots of 1990s material, some of which was recorded with fives, so I played a five on most gigs. A few years after that I did a track for a studio, for which I needed a five.

But I've mostly played in straight-up rock bands, and usually my fours work perfectly there. And sometimes I can get by perfectly with a four, but if I decide to use a five, I'll hit the low D if it fits, as happened the past Monday night at a rehearsal. I think I'm going to use a five for our upcoming set. What the heck.

Longer story: I contemplated getting a five for a few years before I finally took the plunge. This was inspired by playing in a band whose main songwriter frequently wrote in Eb, D, and G#. I got by with a drop tuner on the E string, but other than some of the tracks in D, a five would have been much better. For example, it would have been great to have the D# on the B string right under the G# on the E string, and tracks in Eb would have been easier to manage on a five. With this, I realized the utility of fives, and I wish I had bought a G&L L-1505 or L-2500 instead of an L-1500 back in 2006. It would have been great in that band.

I play a lot of musical gigs and I don’t even consider bringing a 4. A 5 string is essential. Going up the octave and then back down for big runs is annoying and never sounds as good. The last two I have played had continuous runs from the low B note to the high B on the G string. So for me a 5 is just the right tool for any of those gigs.

 

[Avezzano]

I still don't get the glove comment but ok.

Wears like a glove, as "it fits perfectly" or "like a pair of old jeans" in the sense that I feel perfectly comfortable either with a 4 or a 5.

 

[groovepump]

I agree...I liken it to going from a 4 speed transmission to a 5 speed and then trying to go back to a 4 speed. You're always searching for that 5th gear.

Great analogy!!!

 

[totalnoob]

Wears like a glove, as "it fits perfectly" or "like a pair of old jeans" in the sense that I feel perfectly comfortable either with a 4 or a 5.

Oh, LOL, I totally misunderstood initially. I work a lot in laboratories, and notice how much more "stupid" my hands are with gloves on. Even thin, surgical gloves decreases my finger/hand agility, and it does so almost every workday. So, the notion that gloves make precision manual work less accurate, is deeply baked in my mind.

 

[totalnoob]

No have 4. Dislike 4. No play 4.
Have 5. Like 5. Play 5.
Have 6. Like 6. Play 6.

I find your style intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Avezzano]

Oh, LOL, I totally misunderstood initially. I work a lot in laboratories, and notice how much more "stupid" my hands are with gloves on. Even thin, surgical gloves decreases my finger/hand agility, and it does so almost every workday. So, the notion that gloves make precision manual work less accurate, is deeply baked in my mind.

Listen to Scott's explanation about his left hand with glove on... world is a strange place, isn't it?

 

[Discount Bassy]

I find your style intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Caveman haiku words.
Good talk. No word waste. Simple.
No loquaciousness.

 

[Avezzano]

Caveman haiku words.
Good talk. No word waste. Simple.
No loquaciousness.

The Charlie Haden of speeches!

 

[totalnoob]

Listen to Scott's explanation about his left hand with glove on... world is a strange place, isn't it?

I saw that very video late last year; it left a deep impression in me. It doesn't change the fact that gloves make my hands stupider.

 

[totalnoob]

I mostly play 4-string, however, have long thought a 5 makes more sense. As a low frequency instrument, more low frequencies is a good thing.

Exactly. You like bass? 5 has more bass. I like bass, a lot. @Discount Bassy am I doing it right?

 

[totalnoob]

I kept trying and trying to find a fiver that I liked for about 10 years. I’ve played soooo many that I eventually just gave up the ghost and figured I’m just a 4 string guy and left it at that.

But last year, I found a 5er that finally spoke to me. It didn’t hurt that I’ve been hired by two groups whose music benefits from the extended range, for sure. But yeah - I literally had dreams of me playing this bass so I knew I had to get it. Now it’s the one that I play most and I’m loving the fact that I don’t have to run all across the neck to play the lines that I need to.

So I guess what I’m saying is that one doesn’t need a fiver but it certainly doesn’t hurt to have one - if you can find one that speaks to you and helps you play what you need to!

So what bass is that, your "soulmate" 5-string which you finally found?