Do you use fEARful?

[will33]

very interesting. Anyone ever A/bd a 12/6 with a Bergantino 112HD? I've got two and the stack can handle 85% of my gigs but can't quite pull them all. I assumed I would need to step up to two 15s to pull them all off. I too have a bad back and need to stay somewhat lightweight....

If your Bergs are close but come up a little short on the bigger, louder gigs, a pair of 12/6's will get you there and still have a little left to give if you need it, no need for the 15's, you can keep things small/compact with the 12's. They can do it because the woofers can take a good deal more power and give it back to cleanly, not "choked off", or sounding like they're running out of gas, assuming you have a fairly powerful amp. 300 watt @ 8ohm, 500 watt @ 4 ohm or bigger.

Of course, they will do it with a different tonality than your Bergs, so, a meet up/listen/comparison should be in order. The fEARful's will still have a "flavor", but they will be less flavored than the Berg's. The alpha mids used in the 12/6's are one of the nicer/smoother midranges of the line.

 

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by Hopkins
I know its true, but I am not quite sure how that is possible. Every bass related google search I ever do results in a Talkbass thread being on the first search page. Its not just google using my browsing history because is also the case with my work computer that has never logged into Talkbass because my work server wont let me.

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar
Just keep this thread bumped to the top of forum so more bass players see it and finely vote - in a few years or so, the poll should reflect a more accurate account.

On a side note, this TB forum is the golden egg for FL builders - I bet/think they sell/get most of their orders directly from this TB forum. Personally, I never heard of FF/FL until after reading this TB forum and I seriously doubt that I would have ever of heard of them otherwise. So it's a good thing.

Good point. I read all about fEARful both Talkbass and the source forum. I've made my own bass cabs and payed people to build my bass cabs with pretty good results. I knew what information I was reading for in both forums as I combed for learning about fEARful cabs. I was aware of the mistakes I made in both my own builds and hired builds. I wanted some cabs that would correct for those mistakes that I made once and for all. I chose fEARful. I sold off all of the other cabs. It was not inexpensive to hire a builder but it was worth it. I took a leap of faith and ordered a 1515/66 build sight unseen and untested by me - so far so very good. Let me harp on that for a moment: fEARfuls are awesome. Now, I've got 3 great fEARful cabs built by JHawk Customs. And the FF/FL designs are still improving and diversifying - science at work.
(only sweet grapes from me)
Bump.

Yeah, I’ve learned a lot from researching, reading TB, experimenting and etc too. BTW: I haven’t looked at the TB Amp forum Sticky's in a while - but if there isn’t already, it might be good to have a full list of speaker cabinet builders (fearless and otherwise) listed. Bump

 

[slade]

I didn't say it "blew them away" only that it outperformed them.
Epi UL 410 (series 1) and SWR Golight 410 (the ported one, not the Marcus model.

didn't mean to put words in your mouth- sorry about that- was asking an honest question. I don't have experience with either of those cabs so not much help there....

 

[Jim Carr]

I usually don't run through our PA, which carries mainly vox and drums. My LDS 15/6 is for the bar gigs a hobbyist like me plays- this is low brow stuff. However, I can tell you that the LDS 15/6 will fill any venue a 410 will fill, as loudly, deeper and clearer than any 410 I have tried. Under my M9 that box filled a 300 seat hotel ballroom (my biggest gig) with ease, and no PA.

+1

This is my experience, too. I used to always use a 4 ohm UL1 410, two 8 ohm epifani 210s, or the UL1 410 + UL1 210 (610) with my Mesa M9. The Epis are great cabs, and I am not selling them. However, these days, I aways take my Anchak-built Greenboy fEARful 15/6/1.

For me, it's better. A LOT BETTER.

 

[Passinwind]

Anyone ever A/bd a 12/6 with a Bergantino 112HD? I've got two and the stack can handle 85% of my gigs but can't quite pull them all. I assumed I would need to step up to two 15s to pull them all off. I too have a bad back and need to stay somewhat lightweight....

I used to own a 12/6, and have heard several other ones on gigs around here, singly or with a 12sub underneath. I have also played through a stack of two HD112s at a blues jam, which I think are probably my favorite Berg cabs out of the many I've heard. I would definitely be going through FOH if two HDs weren't cutting it, but typically I'd also be doing that if one 12/6 wasn't enough too.

They are voiced very differently and I'm not of the opinion that just EQ would make one sound just like the other. In some situations, probably close enough though.

As always, I would highly recommend finding a 12/6 to try before you throw money down. Many people at our GTGs have loved them, and just as many did not -- same as for everything else, pretty much.

 

[petrus61]

Here's the list of builders ;-) ~Elliot
http://greenboy.us

Not to sound like an asshat, but what's the big secret? If it is a strictly adhered to design, superior to what it is already on the market, why not market it, copyright it (the design...maybe it already is) and make it a little more accessible without having to sequester a builders (and my own) time by having to fill out a form on every site that offers it?

I'm guessing that in addition to "the best bass cab known to mankind and you're and idiot if you didn't know", that I'm also paying for labor, shipping and the privilege of being part of the elite few to know the awesomeness of fEARfull? Is the lack of immediate accessibility part of the marketing to make the idea more attractive or is it that its already incorporated in production cabs and this is just a way make it look even more luxurious? I'm not patronizing, I really want to know. Usually, a thing as revolutionary as these designs are purported to be are capitalized on if they are indeed fitting to the description...and in a more lucrative way then any few custom builders can hope to realistically capitalize on on their own.

 

[Jim Carr]

The fEARFUL design is public and free. Now, what was your question?

 

[canadian*eh]

Greenboy has Hand picked his ABs based upon there work. Unlike commercial built cabs he wants every cab built by the ABs to be of the highest quality...... There was one builder that did not do that and he was quickly removed. The ABs at like a family and all work together with each other when it comes to idea. 3 of then..... Mark (BNA) Joseph (Jhawk) and Barry (B.A.D) have joined together And have made the Greenboy Audio company!! The fEARful design will always be available to anyone who wants to build one. The new Fearless line is AB build only and as far as I know copy righted!!

 

[petrus61]

The fEARFUL design is public and free. Now, what was your question?

Why hasn't it been marketed in a different fashion? It's a very cool thing to have the design out there, but if this design/idea were proprietary, why hasn't it been trademarked instead of hashed out to small builders? If these designs are free, why are they treated like some big trade secret for these builders to capitalize on? Is it really just the difference of being able to build one or not? I want to know one thing. If these designs are the boobies (and I'm not saying they aren't), why isn't a bigger company doing it for cheaper when they 100%, definitely could?

Is it trademarked/patented/etc. or not?
It this is all just basic common audio sense and there are so many people on the know that agree, why hasn't a larger company made the move to capitalize? Or is it not a proprietary design?

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Not to sound like an asshat, but what's the big secret? If it is a strictly adhered to design, superior to what it is already on the market, why not market it, copyright it (the design...maybe it already is) and make it a little more accessible without having to sequester a builders (and my own) time by having to fill out a form on every site that offers it?

I'm guessing that in addition to "the best bass cab known to mankind and you're and idiot if you didn't know", that I'm also paying for labor, shipping and the privilege of being part of the elite few to know the awesomeness of fEARfull? Is the lack of immediate accessibility part of the marketing to make the idea more attractive or is it that its already incorporated in production cabs and this is just a way make it look even more luxurious? I'm not patronizing, I really want to know. Usually, a thing as revolutionary as these designs are purported to be are capitalized on if they are indeed fitting to the description...and in a more lucrative way then any few custom builders can hope to realistically capitalize on on their own.

This wasn't conceived as a way for any one person to make a bunch of money. It was conceived as a way to bring a great cabinet within reach of anyone who wanted to put in some effort. The authorized builders came later. Having a list of authorized builders is a great idea, because it means that the high standards that Greenboy set up are maintained and if something is called a fEARful, it has to be a fEARful (there are plenty of nEARfuls out there as well). The (filthy) lucre aspect is way down on the list of priorities for Greenboy et al, there are plenty of easier ways to make a buck than bass guitar cabinets. Those involved do it because they love it. Not a very popular point of view in our current milk the market for all it's worth/full price is for suckers environment, but it still exists here and there.

So, you need to recalibrate your perception of not only tone, but other people's priorities. Think of it more like Linux or some other open source product. Some people do sell it, but it's fundamentally free. Greenboy is also encouraging ongoing improvements at his forum. There is a new crossover design and you never know what other refinements might pop up.

I think it's a pretty cool environment, to hang out with bass and speaker geeks who are really into it exploring the possibilities without having to be concerned about marketing, profit margins (and consequent corner cutting) and economies of scale. Check it out, you might like it!

 

[petrus61]

Greenboy has Hand picked his ABs based upon there work. Unlike commercial built cabs he wants every cab built by the ABs to be of the highest quality...... There was one builder that did not do that and he was quickly removed. The ABs at like a family and all work together with each other when it comes to idea. 3 of then..... Mark (BNA) Joseph (Jhawk) and Barry (B.A.D) have joined together And have made the Greenboy Audio company!! The fEARful design will always be available to anyone who wants to build one. The new Fearless line is AB build only and as far as I know copy righted!!

Well that answered my question, although I caught it a bit late. Thank you

I've been reading as far back as I can go and see so much praise for these cabs. I would slap my mom to try one. I was just confused as to how a "free" idea can be marketed. I guess that if you want a really well built fEARfull, then these are the guys to contact. From a business standpoint, it just seems backwards, and therein lies my confusion.

 

[B-string]

There may be a protective document. The plans state "For personal use only. Commercial use prohibited."

 

[petrus61]

This wasn't conceived as a way for any one person to make a bunch of money. It was conceived as a way to bring a great cabinet within reach of anyone who wanted to put in some effort. The authorized builders came later. Having a list of authorized builders is a great idea, because it means that the high standards that Greenboy set up are maintained and if something is called a fEARful, it has to be a fEARful (there are plenty of nEARfuls out there as well). The (filthy) lucre aspect is way down on the list of priorities for Greenboy et al, there are plenty of easier ways to make a buck than bass guitar cabinets. Those involved do it because they love it. Not a very popular point of view in our current milk the market for all it's worth/full price is for suckers environment, but it still exists here and there.

So, you need to recalibrate your perception of not only tone, but other people's priorities. Think of it more like Linux or some other open source product. Some people do sell it, but it's fundamentally free. Greenboy is also encouraging ongoing improvements at his forum. There is a new crossover design and you never know what other refinements might pop up.

I think it's a pretty cool environment, to hang out with bass and speaker geeks who are really into it exploring the possibilities without having to be concerned about marketing, profit margins (and consequent corner cutting) and economies of scale. Check it out, you might like it!

Why would I need to recalibrate my perception of tone? I know what I like and tone is subjective. Dispersion is another matter that I suppose is relative, but so long as a said design will deliver a said tone, the point is kind of moot.

 

[petrus61]

There may be a protective document. The plans state "For personal use only. Commercial use prohibited."

So it's an intellectual property thing? Is it an original protected
design, or "eminent domain" in the way a Sadowski looks like a Fender, or royalty free Yankee Doodle?

 

[B-string]

So it's an intellectual property thing? Is it an original protected
design, or "eminent domain" in the way a Sadowski looks like a Fender, or royalty free Yankee Doodle?

I have no idea. I only have passing interest in building one as I used to build properly designed and executed speaker cabs for HiFi or house "PA" work.
I bought an instrument for the "color" of it's native "sound", an amplifier for the way it was "tailored" to bass guitar amplification and my mass produced cabs for their performance and the short warranty if the new components proved defective. A "HiFi" bass guitar cab doesn't interest me all that much . My hands are still the MOST important part.

 

[JimmyM]

Sheesh! You're grossly overthinking it, Petrus!

Here's the deal...Greenboy wanted to build a cab for himself using the 3015lf and a mid driver, but he doesn't like building cabs himself, so he uploaded the plans on here so folks who can build cabs could try it. It was well received, so he designed a couple more around different speakers Eminence was coming out with. The idea snowballed and a group of indie builders around the nation decided to start building them and pay Greenie a licensing fee out of fairness, plus they're now building a new series of cabs Greenie designed but he didn't upload the plans. I don't know how much the licensing fee is and it's none of our business anyway. And it's completely immaterial to the consumer.

 

[Jim Carr]

So it's an intellectual property thing? Is it an original protected
design, or "eminent domain" in the way a Sadowski looks like a Fender, or royalty free Yankee Doodle?

It's public and it's free. You can build a few and use them, no charge. You also misspelled Sadowsky (again), and are perhaps trolling?

There are no royalties on the fEARful designs. Not everyone considers maximum business profit to be the only way to disseminate useful ideas—amazing, huh?

Any other questions?

 

[edwinhurwitz]

Why would I need to recalibrate my perception of tone? I know what I like and tone is subjective. Dispersion is another matter that I suppose is relative, but so long as a said design will deliver a said tone, the point is kind of moot.

OK, well, the tone recalibration idea wasn't necessarily pointed at you in particular. But the fEARful is a different tonal perspective from the standard cabinet, so if you are used to an SVT or another colored cabinet, it's important to recalibrate your perception of tone to get the most out of it. But, I hope you noticed that it was not the main thrust of that sentence. It was a metaphor.

 

[will33]

Not to sound like an asshat, but what's the big secret? If it is a strictly adhered to design, superior to what it is already on the market, why not market it, copyright it (the design...maybe it already is) and make it a little more accessible without having to sequester a builders (and my own) time by having to fill out a form on every site that offers it?

I'm guessing that in addition to "the best bass cab known to mankind and you're and idiot if you didn't know", that I'm also paying for labor, shipping and the privilege of being part of the elite few to know the awesomeness of fEARfull? Is the lack of immediate accessibility part of the marketing to make the idea more attractive or is it that its already incorporated in production cabs and this is just a way make it look even more luxurious? I'm not patronizing, I really want to know. Usually, a thing as revolutionary as these designs are purported to be are capitalized on if they are indeed fitting to the description...and in a more lucrative way then any few custom builders can hope to realistically capitalize on on their own.

With due respect, this design did not originate like that. I watched this thing morphi from experimentations on a PA cab, to a box design more suitable for bass, to trying many different components and mating them together different ways, to having a product, to refining that product, to refining it some more, etc.

All this was put out there freely for anyone who wanted to take advantage of such a thing. It has since gone on to even bigger and better things.

It had a lot more "organic" beginning than what your take on it might suggest.

 

[petrus61]

Sheesh! You're grossly overthinking it, Petrus!

Here's the deal...Greenboy wanted to build a cab for himself using the 3015lf and a mid driver, but he doesn't like building cabs himself, so he uploaded the plans on here so folks who can build cabs could try it. It was well received, so he designed a couple more around different speakers Eminence was coming out with. The idea snowballed and a group of indie builders around the nation decided to start building them and pay Greenie a licensing fee out of fairness, plus they're now building a new series of cabs Greenie designed but he didn't upload the plans. I don't know how much the licensing fee is and it's none of our business anyway. And it's completely immaterial to the consumer.

Thank you. That sums it up perfectly and makes it much clearer to me. Of course the licensing aspect is immaterial to us, but that was the bulk of my question and was curious as to if and how this works as a business model. I know now that its just an altruistic passing along of knowledge that might or might not have already been available. There's a concept and a list of builders to employ it, cut and dry.