Does anybody in here play punk?

[peledog]

If you weren't a struggling, angry and rebellious young man/woman in NYC or London (plus a few other large metro areas such as Philly, LA, and Manchester) in the mid-late 70's, playing in a band in your early 20's with a rebellious passion that took precedence over playing ability,....you probably never got a whiff of what 'punk' was........If you grew up comfortably in a suburb in the MTV-era 80's-90's, you likely do know what is regarded by today's youth, as 'punk'.

Iggy and the MC5, etc were just regarded as pure rock n' roll acts when they hit,....the NY Dolls were 'Glam Rock'. 'Punk' was a word first attributed to the Pistols, Ramones, Slits, Gen X, Clash, Siouxie, etc....I don't regard Iggy as part of 'punk rock' just as I don't regard Cliff Richard as part of the 'British Invasion',...nor the Bee Gees as pioneers of the Disco Scene.

I think you might have missed my point about Iggy. When you talk punk, the attitude vs. punk the music - that's where lines become gray.

I don't think the inability to play instruments well was a ticket into a punk band - Steve Jones is an accomplished guitarist and Simonen ain't too shabby of a bass player.

But then, maybe we're using labels too strictly. In musical terms, you can be part of a scene at its inception or later on. The spirit/attitude remains the same, as does the sound to a certain extent. (see Minutemen) Bad Brains represented DC, as did Minor Threat. But if you go by strict definition, Bad Brains weren't punk because they were amazing musicians. Recently (well, 15 years ago LOL) Helmet brought math/sludge rock to the masses - but for the most part they were Julliard musicians. So?

Meh. Just because the word 'punk' was first attributed to Malcolm Mclaren's band toy - doesn't mean the term can't be used retroactively.

Some people say Neil Young is the godfather of grunge. Where does that come from? The flannel? Or the sound?

 

[flygirafda3]

so hey guys this is my band Link Removed and we play punk/hardcore as I already mentioned. I know you guys really like talking about what makes punk punk and who is and isn't, and I'm going to let you guys get back to doing that but I really just want to hear some rad songs and hear what people think of our stuff, is that cool with you? cool.

 

[peledog]

I shamelessly plug my cover band in my signature, but I don't think your post is in the right forum.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Do as you wish. Just giving you a heads up.

 

[flygirafda3]

Right, because me saying I play in a punk band and this is my band is off topic in a thread asking who plays punk, but debating semantics no one cares about, nor wants to hear is perfectly acceptable. Right. Got it. Later bro.

 

[JimmyM]

Right, because me saying I play in a punk band and this is my band is off topic in a thread asking who plays punk, but debating semantics no one cares about, nor wants to hear is perfectly acceptable. Right. Got it. Later bro.

you have a point.

 

[GregC]

Punk died in the late 70's!....hijacked and turned into the more profitable 'new wave' by the corporate suits.....

If you weren't a struggling, angry and rebellious young man/woman in NYC or London (plus a few other large metro areas such as Philly, LA, and Manchester) in the mid-late 70's, playing in a band in your early 20's with a rebellious passion that took precedence over playing ability,....you probably never got a whiff of what 'punk' was........

I don't want to get caught up in the semantics debate, but I find both these statements too restrictive. Sure, "new wave" traded off punk's energy, but that's an even harder-to-define term than punk. And some of those "new wave" bands were sincerely doing their own thing, not simply at the behest of the suits. (Talking Heads were considered new wave at the time, so was Elvis Costello.) Finally, punk didn't simply die in the late 70s, it became faster and more aggressive. Black Flag, the DKs, Minor Threat--all very much punk.

As to the second quote, punk bands toured the U.S. ceaselessly in the late 70s and early 80s, planting seeds as they went. I lived in South Florida (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale) and Gainesville, FL during that time, and I got plenty more than whiffs of punk. Scenes formed, and though they were small, they had a punk ethos to them.

 

[john_martin_sai]

I don't want to get caught up in the semantics debate, but I find both these statements too restrictive. Sure, "new wave" traded off punk's energy, but that's an even harder-to-define term than punk. And some of those "new wave" bands were sincerely doing their own thing, not simply at the behest of the suits. (Talking Heads were considered new wave at the time, so was Elvis Costello.) Finally, punk didn't simply die in the late 70s, it became faster and more aggressive. Black Flag, the DKs, Minor Threat--all very much punk.

As to the second quote, punk bands toured the U.S. ceaselessly in the late 70s and early 80s, planting seeds as they went. I lived in South Florida (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale) and Gainesville, FL during that time, and I got plenty more than whiffs of punk. Scenes formed, and though they were small, they had a punk ethos to them.

Punk, as I understand, articulated the frustration, rage, and dissatisfaction of the British working class with the establishment.

What exactly were kids in the LA and Miami suburbs rebelling against?....their parents maybe?

"Author Jim Goad argues in his essay The Underground is A Lie!, that many punks are hypocrites. He writes that many punks act poor while hiding the fact they come from middle to upper class backgrounds."

Any difference between the Sex Pistols and punks 10-30 years later?

 

[john_martin_sai]

I lived in South Florida (Miami/Ft. Lauderdale) and Gainesville, FL during that time, and I got plenty more than whiffs of punk. Scenes formed, and though they were small, they had a punk ethos to them.

I see those as people influenced by punk,...but not punks themselves. I was influenced by the 'British Invasion' in the USA during the sixties, and it got me into playing the style and following the fashion with like-minded musicians.

Was I part of the 'British Invasion' too?

 

[ERIC31]

I'm your average, 44 year old, straight edge hardcore "kid" basically. =)

Since the 80's.It started with 7 Seconds, Minor Threat, Gorilla Biscuits and Insted.

Still living the lifestyle, played in a few punk/hc bands over the years.

This was the logo for the hc band I formed in 1997. Lasted a couple years. Good times!

In a Joan Jett cover band at the moment.

 

[Highfox]

Punk always has been and always will be an attitude for me!
Gave me focus and direction whilst I was at an impressionable age.
Bands like the Clash laid it all out there for me..

I have found that you can also mellow with age and find just as much right with the world as you used to find wrong.

Do I play Punkrock nowadays, no, am I still a Punk at heart yes.

 

[DreadRaver]

Hey - been looking at this thread and wanted to chime in -

And yeah, I do consider myself a "punk rocker," even though I've never worn bondage gear or sported a mohawk (although I wanted one once!)

I keep reading these ridiculous definitions in this thread and a few others about "punk."
- Punk is about Anarchy.
- Punk is British.
- Punk is Dead.
- You can't call yourself "punk" if you weren't in the scene in city X back in 19XX.

That's all a load of BS.

You don't own "punk", I don't, and it'll never be caged or catagorized neatly except in some OCD collector's album cross reference system.

I've always hated that "exclusive club" attitude, perpetuated by those who want to "own" the term punk and restrict it's application to today's kids.
(Tough luck, the kids don't care what you have to say on the subject anyway!)

So, to refute the narrow-minded view that "punk" is only applicable to the short lived "punk rock scene" of London in 1976:

The first known use of the phrase punk rock appeared in the Chicago Tribune on March 22, 1970, attributed to Ed Sanders, cofounder of New York's anarcho-prankster band The Fugs. Sanders was quoted describing a solo album of his as "punk rock—redneck sentimentality".

(not London!)

In the December 1970 issue of Creem, Lester Bangs, mocking more mainstream rock musicians, ironically referred to Iggy Pop as "that Stooge punk".

Dave Marsh was the first music critic to employ the term punk rock: In the May 1971 issue of Creem, he described ? and the Mysterians, one of the most popular 1960s garage rock acts, as giving a "landmark exposition of punk rock".

After that, the term Punk was used more and more frequently by American writers and eventually embraced by the bands themselves:

PUNK magazine was a fanzine created by cartoonist John Holmstrom, publisher Ged Dunn and "resident punk" Legs McNeil in 1975. Its use of the term "punk rock," coined by writers for Creem magazine a few years earlier, led to its worldwide acceptance as the definition for the new bands that were producing a new sound based on the music of The Stooges, the New York Dolls, the MC5, and the Ramones. It was also the first publication to popularize the CBGB scene.

All that was BEFORE the Sex Pistols were even a stain in Malcolm McLaren's panties!

As for me, despite what the self-appointed experts in Punk might say, I was involved in a punk scene in a tiny midwestern town in the late, late 1980's. Yes we had MTV, and we hated it.
We made our own scene, just like the kids did before and just like they do now. We played our basses with picks, and without, and nobody told us we were, or weren't punk, 'cause we all heard D Boon's words, "Punk was whatever we made it to be."

To all you kids that want to be Punk - Be Punk!

 

[flygirafda3]

So do you guys actually play any kind of punk or what, I mean really come on, give me anything here.

Also, ERIC31 I'll have to see if I can find anything of your's floating around, sounds like it would be way rad.

 

[DreadRaver]

So do you guys actually play any kind of punk or what, I mean really come on, give me anything here.

Also, ERIC31 I'll have to see if I can find anything of your's floating around, sounds like it would be way rad.

Hey, yeah, I listened to some of your stuff, and wow, hardcore!
See your playing DIY style from the looks of your flyers/photos.

You're living it here and now, don't let the old cranks tell you otherwise.

My band got together for a reunion, after 20 years:
Seven Minute Fury - Apple Pie

Waddya think? Punk or not?

 

[Queg]

Punk, as I understand, articulated the frustration, rage, and dissatisfaction of the British working class with the establishment.

What exactly were kids in the LA and Miami suburbs rebelling against?....their parents maybe?

"Author Jim Goad argues in his essay The Underground is A Lie!, that many punks are hypocrites. He writes that many punks act poor while hiding the fact they come from middle to upper class backgrounds."

Any difference between the Sex Pistols and punks 10-30 years later?

Much like the beatniks in the late 50's, punks in suburban areas weren't necessarily rebelling against class, racism, unemployment, urban blight etc. Rather, they were rebelling against the closed-minded, generic, conformist, consumerist world of suburbia. You may not feel that it's as "cool" for these kids to rebel against their middle class prosperity, and you're entitled to that opinion, but there was nothing inauthentic about it - they weren't hiding their background, it's even evident in their lyrics. Everyone knows Ian Mckaye came from an affluent Washington DC neighborhood, but that doesn't make him a hypocrite.

 

[SactoBass]

I know what you're thinkin, did I play six notes, or only five. Well, to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But bein this is a 5000 watt all-tube bass amp, the most powerful bass amp in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?"

Well, do ya, PUNK?

 

[GregC]

Punk, as I understand, articulated the frustration, rage, and dissatisfaction of the British working class with the establishment.

What exactly were kids in the LA and Miami suburbs rebelling against?....their parents maybe?

"Author Jim Goad argues in his essay The Underground is A Lie!, that many punks are hypocrites. He writes that many punks act poor while hiding the fact they come from middle to upper class backgrounds."

Any difference between the Sex Pistols and punks 10-30 years later?

Some of this has already been answered in the same spirit I would have, so I won't go on too long. But that is the narrowest definition of punk I've ever heard. And given the involvement of many musicians in the U.S. and elsewhere in punk, I feel comfortable stating it's an inaccurate one.

Not every place in LA and Miami is a suburb, that's for sure. And anyway, a listen to the bands that came from there and other places that weren't NYC or London demonstrates that they were singing about a lot of things other than their parents.

Punk was not simply about class struggle, nor was it strictly about a change in subject matter. It was also a musical rebellion, a needed counterpoint to the bloated, dragging state of rock at the time. It brought an end (at the time) to 10-minute guitar and drum solos.

And sure, punk changed over time. It was never uniform to begin with, anyway. Big differences between the Pistols, Ramones and Clash, and later between Black Flag, Minor Thread and Dead Kennedys, and so on...

I see those as people influenced by punk,...but not punks themselves. I was influenced by the 'British Invasion' in the USA during the sixties, and it got me into playing the style and following the fashion with like-minded musicians.

Was I part of the 'British Invasion' too?

There's a key difference in those situations. I have helpfully bolded a couple words in your post as hints.

 

[flygirafda3]

Hey, yeah, I listened to some of your stuff, and wow, hardcore!
See your playing DIY style from the looks of your flyers/photos.

You're living it here and now, don't let the old cranks tell you otherwise.

My band got together for a reunion, after 20 years:
Seven Minute Fury - Apple Pie

Waddya think? Punk or not?

If you're doing it, then its punk. And while I personally think you guys could push the tempo a bit, it sounds pretty cool. Although I do like things to feel like they're at breakneck paces, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[NielsBass]

It;s funny that everytime the music genre punk is discussed there's a huge war about what's punk and what's not, or if punk is still alive or dead.

Like every music genre Punk had it's populairity peak and made a few comebacks and i believe atm it's populairity is a bit down (but it will come back eventually).

Punkrock was created in a time where band liked to present themselves as "bigger than live" and young people that just picked up a instrument looked at them and though "I can never be anywhere as good as these people". (it's like watching victor wooten material the day you bought your first bass)

Then there where bands like the ramones, the sex pistols etc. that played easy to play music on max volume with lyrcis that spoke of rebelion and everyday live.

Lot of young people started to play these catchy and easy to learn songs and a whole new music genre was born.

And while the "music genre" of punkrock might become stale and suposed to be punkrock bands are now just neutrered Disney channel versions of what was once a selfdestructive rebelious wild beast, the punk state of mind is still very much alive.

Actually any music thats made with a vision of not wanting to sound like anything or to polish their music to please the biggest audience, with the attitude of "not being any better than their audience" can be considered punk.

There is punk is certain pop, hiphop, techno, country or even metal, so in that way punk is very alive.

 

[peledog]

Right, because me saying I play in a punk band and this is my band is off topic in a thread asking who plays punk, but debating semantics no one cares about, nor wants to hear is perfectly acceptable. Right. Got it. Later bro.

Defensive much? It was a PSA for you. Don't want you to get all huffy about it. Whether you or anyone else follows the rule is not up to me. As with any thread that has the word 'punk' in it, it's bound to deviate. That being said, debating what YOU don't want to hear about is more a propos. Pointing out a forum 'rule' to a TB bro is considered bad? Netiquette is not your forte is it?

Jesus Christ. I bet you know everything too. Amirite?

 

[peledog]

It;s funny that everytime the music genre punk is discussed there's a huge war about what's punk and what's not, or if punk is still alive or dead.

Like every music genre Punk had it's populairity peak and made a few comebacks and i believe atm it's populairity is a bit down (but it will come back eventually).

Punkrock was created in a time where band liked to present themselves as "bigger than live" and young people that just picked up a instrument looked at them and though "I can never be anywhere as good as these people". (it's like watching victor wooten material the day you bought your first bass)

Then there where bands like the ramones, the sex pistols etc. that played easy to play music on max volume with lyrcis that spoke of rebelion and everyday live.

Lot of young people started to play these catchy and easy to learn songs and a whole new music genre was born.

And while the "music genre" of punkrock might become stale and suposed to be punkrock bands are now just neutrered Disney channel versions of what was once a selfdestructive rebelious wild beast, the punk state of mind is still very much alive.

Actually any music thats made with a vision of not wanting to sound like anything or to polish their music to please the biggest audience, with the attitude of "not being any better than their audience" can be considered punk.

There is punk is certain pop, hiphop, techno, country or even metal, so in that way punk is very alive.

Yep. It always happens. People want to 'own' the term, and define it for themselves. Which is fine. But yeah, the Avril Lavignes of the world do a great disservice to those that remain true to the spirit of the movement and music.

As with any genre, it is accompanied by fashion, marketing, posers, groupies etc etc. Punk can be VERY specific in terms of sub-genres. Same is true for metal.

But like another poster said, no one cares about semantics (details). To me, it is VERY interesting. Otherwise it would be one big blob of everything sounding the same...hey, that's like pop punk today!

Pretty much any style or genre of music will get watered down and bastardized to comply with the bland palette of the general population. I mean, if you put Poison up there with Testament, metal fans would put you in your place. Punk music can also be a very private thing - shared in a small community. Record labels wanted to increase the community (like SST, Dischord etc). Other than Green Day, I don't know of any group that crossed over from punk to arena rock with that amount of ease. Wait, I do know - the Clash.

The thing that worries me, is that if musicians ignore the roots of a genre, then claim they belong to a genre, seems arrogant, if not ignorant.

But then, if you know nothing of the scenes - and come up with your own style of DIY - you can't take the term 'punk' away from that. It is inherently punk, to me.

So....punk is a sound, a genre, a fashion, a social stance. Blink 182? I think not. Terror? Link Removed Hardcore for sure.

But then, just like there won't be another Bad Brains or Clash, there won't be another Beatles or Funkadelic....