Does anybody really need more than 500 watts?

[chris_b]

I don't want to run my amps at more than noon on either volume control. I moved to 700/800 watt amps when, in one band, I began to push the master on my 500 watt amp to 2 and 3 o'clock. I want the headroom to maintain a clean and big sound at any volume without thrashing either the amp or cabs. I sub a lot and need to cover a dozen different playing situations. My gear has to sound equally as good when it is turned up and when it is running in 1st gear.

My 800 watt amp is currently set up in my house for practice with through a 110. The gain is on 6 and the master is on 1. The volume on my bass is very low. I prefer good amps that can sound great at low volume and high volume. Flexibility is king.

 

[Wambemando]

A few month ago my neighbor was being an annoying yahoo... target shooting after dark.
So... I dragged my Rumble 500 w/ 15" extension outside, and maxed it out while repeatedly hammering the B string on my '6er.

There hasn't been a nighttime target practice since!

I guess that's all I need here.

 

[Hugsonic]

Hi All. Haven't read the whole thread but one point I would like to make is, it not All about Watts. Speaker efficiency will have a big impact on overall loudness. I switched a 2x10 rated at 200W to a PJB B4 rated at 400W. Its much smaller, has a great sound and can handle real lows. BUT it's not much louder. Looking into this I found these speakers are not as efficient so you get less noise for your Watts. I bought another PJB and a 500w GK head and I never worried about having enough grunt since. For smaller gig I can just take one speaker. Another thing I learned recenly is to get a HPF to remove the super lows you can't hear. This will get you more out of whatever kit you have.

 

[TinIndian]

Certainly. Many outdoor gigs, especially for low end heavier music.

In my area unless you're doing a big outdoor show there isn't any place to use it. For this reason I've been favoring amplifiers in the 100-250 watt range the last few years. I always have PA support in one band and the other plays smaller venues most of the time and my lower wattage amplifiers are more than enough to do the job. I have a Genz Streamliner 900 that has more power if I ever need it.

 

[Richard Martin]

Certainly. Many outdoor gigs, especially for low end heavier music.

But in that case couldn't you just run a line out to a power amp with more speaker cabinets? You only need one pre-amp correct? A Master/Slave setup? Isn't that how they did it in the old days?

 

[SteveC]

In the 90s I used to play out in small/medium sized clubs with an old Peavey TKO75. More recently, pre 'rona, I was playing through a Genzler 350 with a single 12 cab... a whopping 175 watts through the 8 ohm cab. This was with a sensible drummer, guitar player, keys, two horns, and a singer. When we played the occasional larger venue we had FOH support. I never struggled for volume at any time.

But as always, everyone's situation is different. But to answer your question - I never needed more than 175w!

I also use a Genzler MG350 into a single 12. Play outside, inside, never an issue. I'm playing with smaller groups, doing jazz, singer/songwriter and musical type stuff, but it's been all I need so far. Everything else (like 90%) I play is DI/IEM /Silent Stage so I use 0 watts for that I suppose. While I enjoy looking at everyones cool big rigs, I enjoy bringing a Nano or occasionally a 35 pound combo amp to my gigs.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I would hope he gives up on being a tech... certified or otherwise. Why on earth would anybody think hard wiring all of the connectors was a good idea? What happened to troubleshooting and actually identifying the cause before ruining a perfectly good amp?

I'm going to take back what I said there regarding the hard wiring... I know nothing about amps. He told me he did something to assure the connections were good (possibly something I misunderstood as "hard wiring") and its worked fine since. As I said in the post where I wrote about this, we think the last time I had issues it had to do with the cables and not the head - but I just want to feel confident. I honestly never felt safe with this head after my experience with the 500.

 

[fhm555]

I used an SWR Basic 350 through a Hartke 410XL in a band with a Twin Reverb and a Marshall half stack with a drummer who channeled Bonzo and zero FOH support unless the venue was equipped for it, and in ten very busy years there may have been 3~4 times i wished i had more. These days i’m using a BX500 through a couple of Avatar 126 cabinets and while the music is now country rather than guitar driven R&R, it can get loud on occasion but so far my BX has never been past noon.

 

[Treblefree]

I can say honestly that my current situation doesn't require more than 500 watts or even close to 500 watts, nor has many of my situations in the last 10 years. That said, I have a 1,000 watt head to not have to max it out and maintain great sound, but also because I'm old enough to have battled 2 guitarists in my main band back in the day. Marshall half stack and Peavey 5150 2X12. Those guys were so loud and I had to battle for anything I could ever get soundwise and I could never get even with them. I guess the scars are still there because I won't let it happen again. I have a 210, 410

 

[Joe Nerve]

View attachment 4033218

That thing looks utterly useless to me .

Back around 2004 GK put out a 2X12 combo that had a 700RB head. I had it. It sucked. I added another 2X12 cab to it (the one I'm presently using), and it still farted and rattled. I was playing in a very loud band at the time, but 4x12 and 700 watts should have been able to handle anything. That made me not a fan of GK.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

More headroom and power is a good thing when it comes to amps.

Better to use 700 watts at 40% than 300 watts at 90%.
(All these “watts” are relative since we have no other info such as Ohms, cabs, number of speaker, type of power amp, RMS vs peak watt performance......etc......)

My 2 cents

 

[Killens84]

I had an Aguilar ToneHammer 500 that I loved, but it always ran out of clean headroom on loud stages. For that amp, 500 watts was not enough.

 

[Phaidrus]

Always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

But needing it and not having it is the precondition of desire. And having it and not needing it is arguably the precondition of boredom.

 

[David Jayne]

That thing looks utterly useless to me .

Back around 2004 GK put out a 2X12 combo that had a 700RB head. I had it. It sucked. I added another 2X12 cab to it (the one I'm presently using), and it still farted and rattled. I was playing in a very loud band at the time, but 4x12 and 700 watts should have been able to handle anything. That made me not a fan of GK.

So your feelings about GK are based on a thing they made 17 years ago. Everybody makes a stinker once in awhile. Remember they gave us the original 400 and 800RB.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Not sayin ya don't, but wondering.

I currently have a 700 watt Carvin that I love, but no longer trust. I'm considering replacing it with one of these 500 watters...

View attachment 4032359

...but wondering if I'll ever need more wattage.

In my experience all that's ever necessary in any band/gig situation is enough volume to get a comfortable mix on stage. Anything louder than that is going through the house anyhow.

SO... does anyone here feel they really need more than 500 watts, and if so, please convince me. I am open to dropping $150 more for the higher watt version. I just think right now its might very well just be a waste.

I think there are more determining factors than just the wattage of the amp. Assuming reasonably efficient well tuned speaker cabs with sufficient speaker area, based on my gigs, 500 watts is sufficient. The two bands I work with are horn/vocal bands in the 8-12 musician range where stage monitors are very important and being able to hear them is huge.

Adding one more thing on my personal preference, my rig sounds better when my amps are not driven to the max. My two cabs are both 8 ohms, which gives me a 4 ohm load to the amp. When I use my stereo rack, each cab gets 300 watts. I don’t even get close to maxing it out, but it is there with plenty of headroom.

I also have an 800 watt integrated amp, Eden WT-800, that with a 4 ohm load bridged cranked would blow up the speakers. But driving one 8 ohm 210 cab rated at 500 watts (other cab is rated at 350 watts) bridged is good for smaller venues or tight stages, not to mention a lot less work.

As much as I love my rigs for my gigs, I would need significantly more speaker area if I was playing death metal with 2 guitarists and their cranked Marshall Stacks with mic’d drums, but, I believe more than enough wattage.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I look at 800W, not as 800W itself necessarily, but as ~350W into a single 8 ohm cab with the ability to add another cab and drive both of them cleanly should I need more oomph in an outdoor gig.

 

[SLPimp]

Playing without PA support at a larger venue, and depending on the resistance of the cabs, yes. I play in a town without PA support most places, so everyone has to bring their own and they aren't always up to having bass plugged in.

For the small gigs I play, a genzler mg350 into 8ohms works fine, even without PA. I think a 500w head into 4ohms ought to suit most needs, but if you need pristine clean all theough the range...

One of my fav heads is the Mesa D800. Don't need it, sure, but it has tone I like. I pay less attention to power and more to tone, then figure it out from there

Not sayin ya don't, but wondering.

I currently have a 700 watt Carvin that I love, but no longer trust. I'm considering replacing it with one of these 500 watters...

View attachment 4032359

...but wondering if I'll ever need more wattage.

In my experience all that's ever necessary in any band/gig situation is enough volume to get a comfortable mix on stage. Anything louder than that is going through the house anyhow.

SO... does anyone here feel they really need more than 500 watts, and if so, please convince me. I am open to dropping $150 more for the higher watt version. I just think right now its might very well just be a waste.

 

[esoxhntr]

Always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

What he said... Rarely do you need it, but when you do nice to have a little more on tap. I also prefer to have an amp can is cruising rather than working hard all the time. Could I have made a GK Legacy 500 work? Absolutely. But it cost me proceeds from a gig or two to go the extra mile for the 800. When you consider that the amp will last 5 to 10 years (probably much longer these days ) it's really not much to pay for the extra oomph that may very well pay off in a few different ways. Having said all of that...

... Those thoughts are applicable to my needs. Can't speak to yours. You can also start with 500, and flip for something bigger if need be.

 

[Joe Nerve]

So your feelings about GK are based on a thing they made 17 years ago. Everybody makes a stinker once in awhile. Remember they gave us the original 400 and 800RB.

No. I also purchased a Neo 210 combo with an added 15 (about 7 years ago?), and that had issues also.

Those purchases were based on my experience with their earlier amps. The newer stuff I haven't been a fan of.

Had a Backline too. That, I actually liked.

 

[Jonathan C]

Wouldn't it be nice if amplifiers could all display their output? It would put an end to "I never turn my amp past 3" belief how much amp they are using.