Does anybody really need more than 500 watts?

[Nephilymbass]

Not sayin ya don't, but wondering.

I currently have a 700 watt Carvin that I love, but no longer trust. I'm considering replacing it with one of these 500 watters...

View attachment 4032359

...but wondering if I'll ever need more wattage.

In my experience all that's ever necessary in any band/gig situation is enough volume to get a comfortable mix on stage. Anything louder than that is going through the house anyhow.

SO... does anyone here feel they really need more than 500 watts, and if so, please convince me. I am open to dropping $150 more for the higher watt version. I just think right now its might very well just be a waste.

I feel like the Mesa subway series 800w heads are a great compromise of watts, and weight for me. They work really well with any cab combination I’ve tried. From a low volume situation like jamming with an acoustic guitar player with my single 15 cab setup to powering an 810 or a full stack with a loud two guitar rock band. And because it’s so light weight it never really feels like I’m bringing too much amp for the occasion and with my full stack theres really no need for more power because my big rig can get to that threshold where if you get any louder the sound guy is just gonna ask you to turn down anyways. So I will probably stick with the 700-900w range personally. Even outside of Mesa say aguilar for example I’d get the 700 or darkglass I’d get the 900.

 

[ELG60]

Back in the day, we street racers (allegedly) had a saying: "There's no replacement for displacement." And certain 2AM folks are known to say: "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."

 

[JEDI BASS]

I need my GB Streamliner's 900 watts. We often leave our powered subs at home, for smaller venues or lower volume places. So, I stick 1 of my Aguilar DB 112nt cabs on the far left of the stage, behind our guitarist. The other 112nt goes behind me, on top of my large (mostly empty) rack case, turned a bit toward the drummer. Turned up to about 3, I have plenty of clear clean volume on stage and throughout the venue.

 

[jerry]

I need my GB Streamliner's 900 watts. We often leave our powered subs at home, for smaller venues or lower volume places. So, I stick 1 of my Aguilar DB 112nt cabs on the far left of the stage, behind our guitarist. The other 112nt goes behind me, on top of my large (mostly empty) rack case, turned a bit toward the drummer. Turned up to about 3, I have plenty of clear clean volume on stage and throughout the venue.

Those Streamliner's were special for sure!

 

[BassinCT]

My take on it as a player, not an engineer:
Having enough speaker for the job is as important to me as the power driving it. At a music festival in RI, there was a Fender amp provided that wasn’t any more than 250 watts, but it was driving a 115 + 410. It performed better, volume-wise, than the rig I was used to at the time: a 500w Markbass into two 112’s.

Having said that, I always prefer to have more headroom.

 

[Jay2U]

Having more power available doesn't hurt. One doesn't have to crank it up to the max.
For gigs in the open, 500 watts may not be enough.

 

[JOME77]

I find that amps that have far more power than I will use seem to provide heft and slam that lesser amps don't seem to have. I'm not sure if it's *actually* the power in reserve, or if it is actually more corresponding to the slew rate/other characteristics of topology/design/etc. that bigger amps also have, but this is my experience.

Agree.
I’m a firm believer that having addition wattage headroom in an amp always produces a better sound. The amp is never pushed beyond its capability and has the required wattage reserve to cleanly produce those low B notes when required. Plus, at the cost per watt these days why not go with an 800 watt class D head?

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Not sayin ya don't, but wondering.

I currently have a 700 watt Carvin that I love, but no longer trust. I'm considering replacing it with one of these 500 watters...

View attachment 4032359

...but wondering if I'll ever need more wattage.

In my experience all that's ever necessary in any band/gig situation is enough volume to get a comfortable mix on stage. Anything louder than that is going through the house anyhow.

SO... does anyone here feel they really need more than 500 watts, and if so, please convince me. I am open to dropping $150 more for the higher watt version. I just think right now its might very well just be a waste.

I’ve used more than 500 watts multiple times on outdoor gigs. I don’t know if I needed it, but I did want it. On a huge stage outdoors, 500 watts is not quite as “present” as it is on an 8’x8’ stage in a club.

 

[FirewalZ]

I play a big variety of venues, genres, styles and do sub work.....I've used a GK MB212-ii for several years, 100's of gigs, and have never really needed to push it more than 40-50% of what its capable. So I agree, for most weekend warriors doing typical bar/club/pub gigs, its plenty.

 

[misterCRUSH]

500 has always been plenty enough for me...but then I play in jazz piano trios lol

 

[Papuzzo]

To cover any situation you might ever find yourself in, I suggest skipping a head and cabinet and getting at least a 20,000W PA system just for your bass. Maybe a pair of 15" arrays to start off with. Bring that to your next coffee house gig.

All kidding aside, a lot of people gig comfortably with 12" combos these days. I have done all my gigs with a 250W Little Mark and a 2x12 4 ohm cab and never even got close to pushing my rig. Anything more than that level of volume and bands (and venues) start looking for In Ear Monitoring solutions. I know a lot of bands here who have transitioned into IEM systems and the used market is full of stuff that just doesn't sell. Essentially, if you can't pick it up and move it with one hand you can't sell it for a reasonable price and have to take a sizeable loss. Bear that in mind as everything gradually moves to IEM.

 

[wmhill]

I have 900 watts (tecamp Puma 900). I don't "need" all of that usually. For most gigs I run one cab @ 8OHMs which lets my amp make 600 watts. On the few occasions I'm playing big outdoor gigs I run the second cab, which lets the amp run at 900 watts. It still delivers the sound I want with plenty of headroom and volume enough to not get lost in the stage sound. I have never had a bass rig which left me wishing that I had less power... but I've had plenty that made me wish I had more.

 

[BargeOn]

There is a book out there called "17 Watts" by British session bassist Mo Foster about growing up & playing in the 60s. The title comes from the wattage rating of a new amp he bought back then. People were amazed, players were jealous, no one could imagine having that much power! At the time he was blowing speakers out of his dad's radio using it for a bass amp.

A good read if you're interested.

https://www.amazon.com/Seventeen-Watts-British-Musicians-Stories/dp/186074267X

 

[lfmn16]

Always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

+1

It doesn't cost that much more to get a lot more watts.

 

[LowRick]

Yes.

 

[Jonathan C]

The only time it can be a problem is when the cabinet that one is using can't take the power of a bigger amp.

I just acquired a used WD-800 and took it to practice with an 8ohm Revsound RS-210. This is replacing an Ampeg PF-800 which sounded great but the Mesa tone and control flexibility is just on a completely different planet. At 8ohm its 400 watts and plenty loud, and sparkling clean if I want, but if the requirement arises, I can add a Revsound RS-115 for the full 800. Do I need it 800 watts? I don't know, but it's like having a big turbocharged engine, it's nice to know you have whatever you need when you might. 7lbs, it's so light I had to put rubber under it to keep it from walking off my cab.

 

[FrenchBassQC]

I never turned my 700 watt Carvin past 3. And when I had a 500 watt Carvin, I think I may have turned it up to 4, once. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the 500 but I'm not going to pull the trigger till I air this one out a bit . And what better place to do that. I love Talkbass.

Looks like you don't need more than 500 watts. I have two 500 watts (Tone Hammer and GK MB500 Fusion) and one 600 (Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2) that I use in rotation and for me that is well enough. I bought a GK MB800 Fusion that I sold because it was way too much for my need. At lower volume it was lacking punch and definitions and I had to increase the volume to get those and that was way too loud for my me. Anyway, that has been my experience.

 

[Valvehead]

Oh those glorious WATTS. As if nothing else matters.

Let me break it to you guys: WATTS MEAN NOTHING without the rest of the equation.

First off, a lot of these 'watts' are a measurement of how acceptable the amp manufacturer thinks his product sounds, often using a sinus wave at 1khz as a means of measuring (as if a bass guitar consists of only 1khz signal). They look at the amount of distortion going on in that sinus and decide if 10 percent, 20 percent or even 30 percent distortion still can be considered acceptable. This is why Jim calls his head a 700w and Douglas calls his a 900w. The powersection in there is most probably the exact same module (I'd have to check on this to know if it is).

This makes me say: The STATED watts mean NOTHING. Remember the TC Electronic scandal? What did they call it, 'perceived power'? Whahaha!

Then there's this very much overlooked thing called SPEAKER EFFICIENCY. One cabinet will give you 103 decibels on a 1 watt signal measured at 1m from the cab, another cab will give you 93 decibels on that same signal. I quote: "Doubling of the volume (loudness) should be sensed as a level difference of +10 dB − acousticians say. Doubling of sound intensity (acoustic energy) belongs to a calculated level change of +3 dB. +10 dB is the level of twice the perceived volume or twice as loud (loudness) in psychoacoustics." ... I will leave it to you to do the math ...

Funny how a lot of cab manufacturers do not state speaker efficiency anywhere. Some don't even state the frequency range it produces. Just how much the cab weighs seems to be important nowadays? I use Barefaced cabs because Alex is not *********ing his customers.

So is more then 500w needed? NO!
500 REAL, APPLIED watts would be overkill for most bassist already.

My old Trace Elliot 250w head blows away any of the described as 1000w class D heads out there. It just goes a whole lot louder using a BASS GUITAR as the source because the Trace Elliot is a genuine BASS AMP. Pick up a Fender Bassman 300w tube head and go see how much volume it lacks. The damn thing will have you run off scared.

Now please do note some manufacturers are more honest about their products output level then others. So as always my motto is try before you buy. I know the current Mesa and Bergantino products out there are loud as hell, but I wouldn't rely on any of the 'affordable' brands to spit out the stated amount of watts on a 40hz signal at all.

Its about torque not horsepower in the end.

My 2 cents.

 

[mambo4]

I need my GB Streamliner's 900 watts.

Those Streamliner's were special for sure!

My STL 900 killed my GAS for any amp, for sure. Never needed all 900 Watts, though. I only plugged in a second cab for the full 900 once , at rehearsal. Couldn't turn it past 3. The Drummer Though it was loud.

@Joe Nerve a used streamliner 900 can be had for the price of a new Hartke LX5500, an STL 600 for even less. I would encourage consideration.

 

[Jjacks651]

Not sayin ya don't, but wondering.

I currently have a 700 watt Carvin that I love, but no longer trust. I'm considering replacing it with one of these 500 watters...

View attachment 4032359

...but wondering if I'll ever need more wattage.

IMHO, 500 watts is enough when put through the correct speaker configuration for the venue. That 500 watt Hartke is only 250 watts at 8 ohms and is fine through a number of 8 ohm cabinets. A 410, or a 212 or a 210 and even a 115 would work for most venues, then add two 8 ohm cabinets and you get the full 500 watts and can do an outdoor gig, or a larger club. I've used my David Eden WT400 with one 210 indoors and it's perfect for a small club. For a ballroom with stage, I used a 410 and it was perfect, then on stage outdoors I used a 410 and a 115 and didn't need to go through the PA.

I currently had a Hartke KB15 that is rated at 500 watts but is only using 250 with the one 15" speaker that is just fine for small clubs and rehearsals. I rarely have the volume above 10:00. The big plus is it only weighs something like 35 pounds! Less (weight) is more (fun) with today's newer gear I'm thrilled not to have to lug around my refridgerator Accoustic 360 anymore!

Have fun, get a class D or a Class D Hybrid with tube pre-amp. You can't go wrong.

John