Does pickup height affect tone?

[NoiseNinja]

Bah! Nonsense I tell you, pickups have never done nothing for your tone!

No fingers no tone!

Ergo the tone is in the fingers!

I even developed my finger technique to a point where I would be able to just play air bass and still get the same tone as I would get with any non imaginary bass.

Sound is vibrations in air, it is just a matter of hitting hard enough!

 

[Guiseppe]

So does pickup height (proximity to strings) effect the signal amplitude (volume), bandwidth (tone) or both? Clearly to me the amplitude (volume) is directly effected, but not sure if the tone is altered as well or just perception of tone? Waiting for an expert opinion, please.

The only expert that can give you the opinion that suits your ears perfectly is you. I recommend using your bass manufacturer's recommended pickup height and working from there. As mentioned by others, you have to factor in your strings (if they exceed the stock string gauges), how you like setting your action, and your particular style/attack. Changing strings will also affect your overall sound. I really WISH I could offer a magic answer, but I will say this: I chased the Fender tone I wanted for years, and it was only when I began doing my own setups and went to the stock height that I began getting that 'magic' I'd been after.

 

[bucephylus]

You can also use a set of precision dimensioned non magnetic rods (brass, etc.) and use those to set the coarse gap between the pickup poles and the strings. StewMac and other suppliers have them. They look like brass Allen keys minus the ridges.

Then comes the 'art' part since no two pickups are exactly the same - and different strings have different characteristics. Once roughly adjusted, I'll make minute adjustments (an eighth turn or less) in the height adjustment screws, then play and listen. Then repeat as often as necessary over a few days until I hear what I'm listening for and the strings respond the way I want them to on that particular bass.

It's time consuming and very personal - so I'm not surprised nobody but the boutique shops spend much time doing it. But I've often maintained the single biggest difference between a high-end boutique bass and your average good quality instrument is that boutique builders take the time to absolutely nail the entire setup on their instruments.

Wood is wood. Electronics are electronics. Strings are strings. It's the selection and combination of quality materials, and especially the attention to all the details of the craft of bass building that separates the truly great bass from the merely excellent ones. And pickup height is one of those details.

Yup. Same for me.

But, seriously, how hard would it be to have two screws for each pickup accessible from the back of the bass with fine thread machine screws to dial in the pickup height? With ALL the development efforts going on, you'd think someone would care enough to put something relatively simple like that in place for such a critical adjustment. Ya'd think.

Sure, I get the physics. I understand how to make the adjustment. But, with standard J pickups it is a major PITA.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Great discussion. My ACG Uber bass has humbuckers with adjustable pole pieces. (These pickups have separate humbuckers for each string in a single case.) I never bothered with the pole pieces. I think I will give it a try.

 

[40Hz]

Yup. Same for me.

But, seriously, how hard would it be to have two screws for each pickup accessible from the back of the bass with fine thread machine screws to dial in the pickup height? With ALL the development efforts going on, you'd think someone would care enough to put something relatively simple like that in place for such a critical adjustment. Ya'd think.

Sure, I get the physics. I understand how to make the adjustment. But, with standard J pickups it is a major PITA.

Agree 100%. I think wood screws need to be banned for everything on an instrument except things that aren't usually meant to be removed - like pickguards - which I wouldn't mind losing anyway.

 

[bassdude51]

I read an article or saw a video, I think it was Curtis Novak's website and it was concerning guitar pickup but I think it's the same for bass pickups too. Get the pickups as close as possible without "wolf tones". Yeah, what are "wolf tones"? Google it. Go to youtube for videos on pickup adjustment.

Since most bass pickups adjust only for the E and G string, it's not too hard to experiment with height.

There are other factors in pickup adjustment, if we have really low action or really high action then our pickup height adjustment has to consider our string height.

Fender and Music Man give excellent "starting points" for pickup adjustment on their websites and then we can tweak from there.

 

[cazclocker]

Fascinating discussion. Subscribed.

 

[songwriter21]

Which is one thing, why I like to have four screws in any pickup. The original Jazz bass pickups was brilliant with their four way screws even though it was single coil. Can't stand when it's not aligned up to the actual strings declining path towards the nut. You have to dabble with foam underneath and whatever. My biggest gripe was when Q-tuner started to make their new pickups (humbuckers) with two adjustment screws only. EMGs are kind of drag too in this regard. I e any pickup should be slanted a bit slightly towards the neck side. Like this (even if its for guitar in this particular case):

I completely agree, and that's about how close my pickups are to the strings (of course with enough room to sound and vibrate). Uneven non-4-screw pickups are a total bitch when they are crooked. Having four screws means precision-set heights, especially because the screws forces work with/against each other. I loved Peavey's VFL pickups for this.

 

[Geri O]

Oh, man, I've had a bit of an epiphany here...

With regard to pickup height on my American Elite Jazz 5, I had set the height to whatever Fender suggests, which looks similar to some dimensions listed earlier here. I've been rocking pretty hard with gigs for the last two weeks and hadn't much thought about the tone, it sounded good to me.

So today, I'm working at home, took a break. I read through this thread and thought, why not, Let's see if I can get it a little brighter? Wow, I turned all the pickup screws up a half-turn and man, what a difference. Definitely brighter, more open. Checked for wolf tone and evidence od pickup pull, only the B string and E string fretted at the 15th fret show signs of wolf tones and (A) I can't say that it's because of the pickups and (B) I'll never play those strings that high on the neck anyway. A, D, and G strings sound fine all the way up the neck (well, as good as they can on a decently-set up Fender.

Yeah....It's amazing what a little change makes to the sound. No doubt at all. Wish I had played with this sooner.

 

[Lowbrow]

Yep. Lowbrow I am, yet I will adjust PU height many, many times before I stop fussing.
Interesting note: my first bass teacher told me that the standard PU height on a Fender P was, string fretted around the last fret, two stacked US nickel widths of string clearence for bass side (E), one nickel for treble (G). It sounded very smart, so I neglected to ask what was optimal for the A and D strings .

 

[ofajen]

I read an article or saw a video, I think it was Curtis Novak's website and it was concerning guitar pickup but I think it's the same for bass pickups too. Get the pickups as close as possible without "wolf tones". Yeah, what are "wolf tones"? Google it. Go to youtube for videos on pickup adjustment.

I've spent plenty of time adjusting pickups, playing and listening to guitars and basses. My experience is that pickup height does affect tone, but whether you should tend toward higher or lower pickup height is a matter of personal preference of tone. Lower pickup height tends to insure increased dynamic range and a more natural tone, while higher pickups tend to have a degree of compression and thicker tone.

For a guitar that I will mainly want to use for distorted tones, I'm more likely to push the pickups a bit higher, while a guitar that will be used for some clean playing will have lower pickup height.

I play of a lot of clean bass tones, so I usually keep my pickup height at or perhaps slightly below what's typically recommended for that type of pickup, based on how it sounds and responds to my playing.

Otto

 

[Honch]

I completely agree, and that's about how close my pickups are to the strings (of course with enough room to sound and vibrate). Uneven non-4-screw pickups are a total bitch when they are crooked. Having four screws means precision-set heights, especially because the screws forces work with/against each other. I loved Peavey's VFL pickups for this.

Yes, and this is more often than not the result of the dreaded "clack" sound if you have low action, and close pickup/string distance. You can very well measure the pickup height on - say - a P bass pickup which isn't possible to slant that way. The front plastic of the pickup is too close to the string. Now, picking and plucking a 19th fret note will not have the oscillation and low tension as the open string low E (say). What happens is that you test it with the last fret fingered and make sure it doesn't touch physically. If you use that as a guide, then the following will happen: When you pluck or thumb or pop you low E open string it will not only "clack" on the plastic edge of the pickup but the Magnetic String Pull will draw and attract the string to the pole piece initially. It's less than 5 milliseconds "clack". Then you'll have to back of the pickup even more, but as it is the front edge of the pickup only that gets in the way, you may have to end up with slightly too low and uneven height. This is just along the strings length, not across all strings. I'd wish that all pickups had screws like MM and J bass pickups, regardless of them being single coil, double coil or whatnot:

 

[Honch]

I think a good idea, would be - because of the difference in string - that you should connect a "volume knob" as a pickup height. Since it makes sense and difference the slightest turn on the screws. It should be mechanically adjusted and could be carried out just like a stereo turntable players PICKUP (another kind of pickup, don't mix these ones up) stylus system, where you push a lever and the stylus ascends lightly and slowly into the vinyl grooves. That mechanism could be incorporated into a pickup system for bass but of course, will not ever touch the strings and run down to the bottom of the pickguard. Then you could adjust pickup height WHILE PLAYING if it required some serious growl, more compression, more treble, less treble, weak but dynamic output and so on. When turning on that knob between volume and tone control you can see pickups elevate or de-eleavate ever so slowly. I've heard that Joe Barden rail pickups are most sensitive to the tiniest adjustment of the string to pickup distance. EMG the least.

 

[Honch]

I do actually know of some players (well, this evening I played on his bass that was set up that way, at a gig, I m home already!) who sets their pickup height according to how comfortable it is to rest the thumb on!!! Not too low then, and if the sound or "wolftone" "msp" tone presents itself well then, they just say that the importance of thumb rest trumps the MSP.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Pickup height is one of the first things I look at on a bass. I can't count how many times I've talked to someone who was getting ready to get rid of a bass because they were unhappy with the sound and the pickups were around 1/4" away from the strings. My standard setup on a two pickup bass (my prefered configuration) is to set one as close as I can without string interference then ballpark the second one then balance the two when both are full on. Actually pretty simple and definitely can have a big effect on tone.

Some of my basses are set up with as little as 2-3mm of space between the pickups and strings (I typically have ramps installed too with similar clearances). Haven't had problems with string pull or wolf tones.

Just one of those setup secrets that's often overlooked.

 

[ofajen]

Pickup height is one of the first things I look at on a bass. I can't count how many times I've talked to someone who was getting ready to get rid of a bass because they were unhappy with the sound and the pickups were around 1/4" away from the strings. My standard setup on a two pickup bass (my prefered configuration) is to set one as close as I can without string interference then ballpark the second one then balance the two when both are full on. Actually pretty simple and definitely can have a big effect on tone.

Some of my basses are set up with as little as 2-3mm of space between the pickups and strings (I typically have ramps installed too with similar clearances). Haven't had problems with string pull or wolf tones.

Just one of those setup secrets that's often overlooked.

2-3mm is very much a nominal spacing for a lot of pickups (assuming you are measuring with the highest note fretted/fingered). MM recommends a bit more. 1/16" is about 1.6 mm which is about the least you'll see recommended. If you are measuring with strings unfretted, then, yes, you are very much in the "close" range of settings.

Otto

 

[Brad Johnson]

Depends on the bass. When fretted might be as little as a 1mm. People look at it and think it's unplayable.

The only thing I have similar to a Musicman is my 1980 G&L L2000E. I don't set it as low.

 

[smeet]

I was comparing some P5 pickups on my Nordy today, recording the results in Logic (recording software). I did a pass with the pickup far from the strings and one with the pickup as close as I could. Of course, the closer setting sounded much better. Brighter, more punchy, more open. Then I adjusted the channel volumes in Logic so they matched. To my surprise, now both recordings sounded almost identical. Not totally, but I think many times we get fooled by the louder signal sounding better to us. Whatever, I'll still put them as close to the strings as I can without getting wolfy, but it's always interesting to have your expectations and perceptual biases exposed.

 

[2luvthebass]

I know guys who drop their p pickups all the way down to get a warmer Woodier sound. Definitely drops some of the treble out

I like you're use of the word "woodier". To me that's the perfect word to describe what happens to the tone when you start lowering the pickups.

 

[scuzzy]

I can't speak for every player, but I spend more time adjusting and tweaking the pickup heights on a new bass than anything else when I first get one home. And it's usually a few weeks before I'm completely happy with the setup. As others have mentioned, even minor adjustments to the pickup to string spacing can make a huge difference in the tone and response of an instrument.

Took me weeks of daily playing to finally get my ovation magnum quad coil pickup to the proper height with proper balance on all four poles. The end result is worth it though.