Does price = quality/sound

[smcd]

The sad part about this thread is that people come out and stake fender as the standard for quality. Lets use ibanez as the standard, and compair from their price points. That would keep things a bit more honest.

Fender invented the electric bass, is still in business and puts out a high quality product. On top of all that, the majority of non-Fender basses are copies of Fender designs. Given those facts, they are the standard of measurement by default. Ibanez isn't suitable as a benchmark. They built their business making cheap copies of Fender basses. They have all their products built by other manufacturers by contract. There has never been a "Ibanez factory". All their production is in Asia, most of it in China where the workers are paid (by N.American/EU standards) sub-poverty wages. Using Ibanez, or any Chinese/S.E. Asian nation as a standard is entirely unsuitable.

 

[georgestrings]

Read a good chunk of the thread. Lol.

I read the whole thing - I didn't see anywhere that Fender was held "as a standard" by anyone... Point out some specifics, or admit that you were blowing smoke out your @$$ again...


- georgestrings

 

[therhodeo]

Fender invented the electric bass, is still in business and puts out a high quality product. On top of all that, the majority of non-Fender basses are copies of Fender designs. Given those facts, they are the standard of measurement by default. Ibanez isn't suitable as a benchmark. They built their business making cheap copies of Fender basses. They have all their products built by other manufacturers by contract. There has never been a "Ibanez factory". All their production is in Asia, most of it in China where the workers are paid (by N.American/EU standards) sub-poverty wages. Using Ibanez, or any Chinese/S.E. Asian nation as a standard is entirely unsuitable.

And Ibanez has certain lines that are built in Japan by skilled craftsman. Ibanez has all their instruments built under the Ibanez name instead of splitting the bottom end off as in the case of Squier. Now to compare what do you think the ratio of China ibanez to Japanese Ibanez is compare to China/Indo/Mexi Fender's to American made fenders? Yes if you frame the argument as USA Fenders versus all Ibanez its definitely an unfair comparison. Not so much when you take both companies entire product lines.

 

[rocksmoot]

[sic] ...but the Fender bass still is a sold sound in the music world.

To me that sound is not to hard to find or make if you do some homework and it can be duplicated in basses costing much less. As for quality that is up to you . Do you need simple and effective or all the doo dads, bells and whistles.? That my friends is the question.

I have to say that I am a Squier fan. I've owned Strats, Jazz VM's and P VM's and loved them. I joined a band this year that needed the old school thump and for the life of me, I couldn't make either of my Squier basses deliver it. I upgraded my amp, my cab, upgraded the pickups and bridges on both of the basses and I still couldn't get that room-filling bass I needed.

I'm perfectly willing to admit that it's me that couldn't get that sound, that if James Jamerson crawled out of his grave and picked up my Squier, he'd have all the butts moving in short order. But I couldn't do it. I was incredibly frustrated with the situation. On the one hand I was tired of dropping bucks for upgrades to no good end but I was leery of upgrading only to experience the same disappointment.

Last week I was in a local muso shop and there on the wall was a 2012 American Special P Bass, Olympic White with rosewood fretboard. The sheer awesomeness of the look aside, I was leery of going down another financial rat-hole and was about to leave when the shop owner offered to let me take it home for a week to give it a try, see if it would do the job.

At the first rehearsal I plugged it in (store tags still dangling from the neck) and there it was - that much sought after but ever elusive (to me) thump of the gods. I went back to the store and traded in a Korean Telecaster for that bass. I played it at a gig last Saturday and it just filled the room with bass love. My guitar player nearly cried with joy.

Now theoretically, after the upgrades I made to the VM's I should have been able to get within shouting distance of what my new P delivers.

I still don't understand why they don't do the job. But I'm now a believer. Sometimes you just gots to pay yer money.

Edit: For reference, my rig is an Ampeg PF800 into a GK 410 NEO. I went to GC while I was in Omaha to see if I could pick up some form of 410 SVT cab, be it PF, PN, HE, HLF or whatever thinking that it would match well with the PF800, but none were in stock. The GK was sitting there looking all lonely, so I decided to give it a whirl. It's still whirling. Awesome cab for a really decent price, and the PF800 just smolders. I'm a very happy bass player now.

 

[rocksmoot]

Yeah, I never felt "held back" by playing a Squier - and was told on more than one occasion that I was rockin the crap outta that Squier...


- georgestrings

Man, I'd sure love to get that massive sound out of my Squiers, particularly my Jazz VM. I haven't given up on it yet but the American Special P is far and away superior to it.

I put DiMarzio Model J's in it, a Hipshot bridge and a Tusq nut, tried all kinds of strings, light to heavy, roundwounds and flats. Sounds lovely in my practice room but falls flat with the band.

I'm certainly open to suggestions though. I love the looks of the Squier and the playability of the neck is very very nice.

 

[therhodeo]

Well thats the thing. You can likely find other squiers that "have it" like your new American and American's that are duds just like your squier.

 

[rocksmoot]

Well thats the thing. You can likely find other squiers that "have it" like your new American and American's that are duds just like your squier.

Probably true. Within my very limited product sample, price = quality, but YMMV.

Still, I just wonder why the Squiers don't have "it". What is it? The wood maybe? I dunno.

 

[peledog]

As a rule of thumb, a high end/ high priced bass is usually hand made at a small luthier shop and tend to be easier to play (as in, it doesn't fight you and you don't fight it). It's a smoother experience. Electronics play more of a factor in the sound, but how comfortable you are on a bass definitely influences how you play and in turn how it sounds. Most production basses these days are definitely well made for the most part.

There is something that is hard to explain, and that is when you find 'it'. The bass that 'fits' you and you 'fit' it. Once you have this, the music just flows through and out of you with ease. This can occur with a bass at any price point, but something like a USA Spector or a USA Lakland is crafted in such a way that everything relating to the physical actions necessary to play bass tend to be much, much easier. So, my conclusion is that there is not a specific price to sound/quality correlation. One needs to consider craftsmanship and the labor in the price of a bass - and this is usually higher in hand made basses. In production basses, not so much.

 

[Discharge]

I still don't understand why they don't do the job. But I'm now a believer. Sometimes you just gots to pay yer money.

I couldn't agree more, you find that once you pass the $1500 threshold basses all of a sudden are far better put together in every respect, although I wasn't overwhelmed with the finish of my 4003 fireglo and I haven't played an EBMM SR4 that doesn't have a weak G.

I would certainly buy a Fender MIA without needing to play it, however even though I earn quite allot of money... i'm not sure I would drop $3k+ on a new/used bass.... that said I never thought I would buy a bass that cost $2400 time will tell

Also, basses are a nice possesion, a work of art that you can even hang on your wall and glean allot of pleasure through pure ownership... that itself has a value.

 

[georgestrings]

Man, I'd sure love to get that massive sound out of my Squiers, particularly my Jazz VM. I haven't given up on it yet but the American Special P is far and away superior to it.

I put DiMarzio Model J's in it, a Hipshot bridge and a Tusq nut, tried all kinds of strings, light to heavy, roundwounds and flats. Sounds lovely in my practice room but falls flat with the band.

I'm certainly open to suggestions though. I love the looks of the Squier and the playability of the neck is very very nice.

When I used a Squier VMJ, I ran Ultra Jazz pups in series, into either a T-Max/210+410 rig, or a 700rb-II into a PH610 - no problems at all kicking ass with either setup...

At the time I traded it away, my VMJ had the pups and preamp out of an American Active Jazz Deluxe, and still rocked pretty hard...


- georgestrings

 

[Aussie Player]

Rockmoot
I think you found the secret. Olympic White.
Now I have 2, a PJ with rosewood and a Jazz.with maple, both with tort.
It's the winning combo.

 

[rocksmoot]

Rockmoot
I think you found the secret. Olympic White.
Now I have 2, a PJ with rosewood and a Jazz.with maple, both with tort.
It's the winning combo.

I think you have something there, Aussie. I wonder if it will help to paint my amp and cab Olympic white?

 

[rocksmoot]

When I used a Squier VMJ, I ran Ultra Jazz pups in series, into either a T-Max/210+410 rig, or a 700rb-II into a PH610 - no problems at all kicking ass with either setup...

At the time I traded it away, my VMJ had the pups and preamp out of an American Active Jazz Deluxe, and still rocked pretty hard...


- georgestrings

Thanks, George. Any mods to bridge or tuners?

 

[topo morto]

What factor in this list is unique to bass guitars? None of it. Just because the specifics are different, the market factors involved aren't. Every product manufactured has these costs and is sold in a marketplace subject to the same factors, with consumers who tend to demand the same types of attributes for a given product.

Yes. My point was that the importance of each of those factors is different for every product. We are probably 'agreeing violently' here.

This is plainly false with respect to the question at hand. For any product with a large enough market, there are ranges of "quality" at all different price points for <insert product here>, and your definition of "quality" for <insert product here> depends heavily on personal preferences and values. Cars, cell phones, pianos, tires, bass guitars, sunglasses: when it comes to the question of whether "price = quality", the answer is always the same: usually yes, but with diminishing returns and disruptive exceptions, and all bets are off if you and the average consumer don't see eye to eye on which attributes constitute "quality".

Again, broadly agreed. It wasn't what I inferred from your original post - This being TB I wrongly assumed you meant something stupider

I think for most people there are reasons to buy something that don't necessarily correspond exactly with the things they would mark as denoting quality - being attracted by a brand / the hype / whatever. Hence why I would say that for some products, there are large parts of the price range where there is little meaningful cost / quality relationship (e.g. Jeans, speaker cables) and for other products, it's probably still more true to say that you get what you pay for (screwdrivers, speakers).

 

[Huge]

Wow, this thread is much longer than I thought it would be.

Does price have anything to do with quality or sound? Of course not. We'd all like to think it does, but pricing strategies usually have more to do with how the market perceives the product and how much value the buyer places on it. Hopefully the market you're in recognizes quality, but we all know that they generally don't. Certainly generalities exist, but you can't tell me that a $900 bass will always be better than an $850 bass, because that's not what price indicates.

FWIW, there is a thing known as Premium Pricing, where prices are set artificially high to create the perception of quality. If you've ever shopped for motorcycle gear *cough*Icon*cough*, you've seen this in action.

Humans are easily fooled, and marketers are paid to fool us into thinking that the brand they're marketing is a quality brand. Price is only indicative of how much money the seller is asking for.

 

[pedroims]

Wow, this thread is much longer than I thought it would be.



Does price have anything to do with quality or sound? Of course not. We'd all like to think it does, but pricing strategies usually have more to do with how the market perceives the product and how much value the buyer places on it. Hopefully the market you're in recognizes quality, but we all know that they generally don't. Certainly generalities exist, but you can't tell me that a $900 bass will always be better than an $850 bass, because that's not what price indicates.



FWIW, there is a thing known as Premium Pricing, where prices are set artificially high to create the perception of quality. If you've ever shopped for motorcycle gear *cough*Icon*cough*, you've seen this in action.



Humans are easily fooled, and marketers are paid to fool us into thinking that the brand they're marketing is a quality brand. Price is only indicative of how much money the seller is asking for.

There is alot of true on your word. But because I dont like to be call a fool I need to say that you are crazy

 

[rocksmoot]

Wow, this thread is much longer than I thought it would be.

Does price have anything to do with quality or sound? Of course not. We'd all like to think it does, but pricing strategies usually have more to do with how the market perceives the product and how much value the buyer places on it. Hopefully the market you're in recognizes quality, but we all know that they generally don't. Certainly generalities exist, but you can't tell me that a $900 bass will always be better than an $850 bass, because that's not what price indicates.

FWIW, there is a thing known as Premium Pricing, where prices are set artificially high to create the perception of quality. If you've ever shopped for motorcycle gear *cough*Icon*cough*, you've seen this in action.

Humans are easily fooled, and marketers are paid to fool us into thinking that the brand they're marketing is a quality brand. Price is only indicative of how much money the seller is asking for.

Sorry, I disagree. Pricing comes down to a balance of cost, desired profit and, as you said, how much a given market participant is willing to pay for the perceived value. Premium products typically offer more than just a higher price.

Companies work hard to differentiate products across tiers with something more substantial than price, whether it's color, fabric quality or some other aspect. For premium pricing to be effective, customers must perceive value in what the marketers are flogging. The marketplace is littered with the corpses of products backed by huge marketing campaigns that failed to do this basic thing.

 

[georgestrings]

Thanks, George. Any mods to bridge or tuners?

You're welcome - and no, stock tuners and bridge... I also poly'd the fretboard, which seemed to help stability a little...

It was actually a pretty good bass - but not good enough to keep, since I traded it, and $300 for a nearly all original '76 P with a period correct hardshell case...


- georgestrings

 

[therhodeo]

Sorry, I disagree. Pricing comes down to a balance of cost, desired profit and, as you said, how much a given market participant is willing to pay for the perceived value. Premium products typically offer more than just a higher price.

Companies work hard to differentiate products across tiers with something more substantial than price, whether it's color, fabric quality or some other aspect. For premium pricing to be effective, customers must perceive value in what the marketers are flogging. The marketplace is littered with the corpses of products backed by huge marketing campaigns that failed to do this basic thing.

Having worked in consumer goods I can tell you that we love customers like you.

 

[pedroims]

For premium pricing to be effective, customers must perceive value in what the marketers are flogging.

This perception usually means a great marketing campaign.

Most of product formulas are the same, same quality, same ingredients. Packing materials is the difference...and the hot model "using" the product in the commercial everybody watch on TV.

There is a good reason why Fender spend more money in endorsements than development of new products.