Double Bass Don't look at me

[Jake deVilliers]

"Nicely summarized Captain Fantastic."

Thank you Sergeant Manicotti!

That's high praise, coming from one of the best writers on these pages.

At ease.

 

[Huy Nguyen]

You guys are hilarious!

 

[mrpc]

There's alot of love in this room....

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Winnebago Boy gets a title, as does Handy Andy, and The String Nazi narrows his focus. Should be good.

I'm not Andy "Airbass" Allen, but Jeremy "Johono5" Allen. But after seeing what's happened with all of this silliness, I may wish it was the other Allen doing the modding...

I learned a great deal from Ken Smith's posts when he was a member, and I will miss his insight on many issues. Anyone is welcome to delete all of their posts on here, and there are many understandable reasons for doing so. Spite isn't one of them in my book, but Ken can do as he chooses to do. After re-reading the threads, I don't think anyone can reasonably be blamed for Ken Smith's departure except for Ken Smith.

Although many people will miss his expertise, it may be worth noting that at least one well-respected luthier (a maker of double basses, not bass guitars) has told me he has avoided taking part in the TalkBass double bass forums specifically because of Ken's overwhelming presence. I always thought it was silly for someone to allow the presence of one poster to discourage them from joining the discussion, but that's what had happened; and I'll invite this person to join in now that Ken seems to have taken his ball and gone home. If he comes along, I'll consider that the bright side to Ken's departure.

 

[musicman5string]

Anyone who was offended by Ken Smith's posts needs to grows a set of balls.
Seriously, are you guys kidding me? Ken's been in the buisness over 30+ years and his opinion, to me at least, means something of value, whether I agree with it or not. I've only been on TB about a year, and have had interaction with KS a bunch of times, and I never felt intimidated, offended, put off, or felt like crying to a good Meryl Streep movie while I drank warm tea and painted my toenails.
Whatever. Much better to get advice from a guy that has been playing for 6 months, owns a Chinese bass, and asks "how do you make a walking bassline?"

BTW, no I don't own a Smith bass and don't plan to either.

 

[musicman5string]

And how in the world would you know...at a mere 26 yrs of age...who "knows what they're talking about"? Lots of us have been gigging longer than you've been alive!

I don't know Jake, whom you directed that at, but I'd like to remind you of these names:
Jimmy Blanton
Scott LaFaro
Both of whom pretty much are responsible for the evolution of Jazz Double Bass playing, who did so before their untimely deaths.....before the age of 26.
Just wanted to point that out Grandpa.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Anyone who was offended by Ken Smith's posts needs to grows a set of balls.
...I've only been on TB about a year, and have had interaction with KS a bunch of times, and I never felt intimidated, offended, put off, or felt like crying to a good Meryl Streep movie while I drank warm tea and painted my toenails.
Whatever. Much better to get advice from a guy that has been playing for 6 months, owns a Chinese bass, and asks "how do you make a walking bassline?"
BTW, no I don't own a Smith bass and don't plan to either.

This doesn't really have anything to do with why Ken left. He did not leave because other people were offended by his posts and were too sensitive to handle him (seriously, to his credit, can you imagine him doing that?). It seems that just the opposite is the case.

 

[mrpc]

Anyone who was offended by Ken Smith's posts needs to grows a set of balls.

Where?

 

[Andy Allen]

I'm not Andy "Airbass" Allen, but Jeremy "Johono5" Allen. But after seeing what's happened with all of this silliness, I may wish it was the other Allen doing the modding...

Don't you wave your magic moderator's wand at me, Mr Allen; I'm not as stupid as I look, you know.

I'd like to remind everyone about the "Ignore" function of TB (my last post about this got erased in the 'big Ken cleanup'). If someone gets just too tiresome to bear you can add their name to your ignore list and that person's posts will be hidden; it can improve your TB experience immensely, although you risk missing some hidden gems. Feel free to use me as a test case - it's unlikely you'll miss much if you ignore me

You've reminded me - my mother's favourite saying was, "Everything in moderation, especially moderation."

Andy

 

[Uncletoad]

"Nicely summarized Captain Fantastic."

Thank you Sergeant Manicotti!

That's high praise, coming from one of the best writers on these pages.

At ease.

That's Lieutenant Linguine to you whippersnapper.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Anyone who was offended by Ken Smith's posts needs to grows a set of balls.
Seriously, are you guys kidding me? Ken's been in the buisness over 30+ years and his opinion, to me at least, means something of value, whether I agree with it or not. I've only been on TB about a year, and have had interaction with KS a bunch of times, and I never felt intimidated, offended, put off, or felt like crying to a good Meryl Streep movie while I drank warm tea and painted my toenails.
Whatever. Much better to get advice from a guy that has been playing for 6 months, owns a Chinese bass, and asks "how do you make a walking bassline?"

So on the one hand, deference should be shown to someone with multiple decades of experience...

I don't know Jake, whom you directed that at, but I'd like to remind you of these names:
Jimmy Blanton
Scott LaFaro
Both of whom pretty much are responsible for the evolution of Jazz Double Bass playing, who did so before their untimely deaths.....before the age of 26.
Just wanted to point that out Grandpa.

...and on the other, young pups under the age of 26 sometimes show that their voices are equally valuable if not moreso.

That's the dilemma we find ourselves in here with the notion of granting certain members an elevated status based on their long term contributions to the field rather than simply reacting to what is actually being said in each moment (as is the case with newbies). Our instincts say, "sure...X has been doing this for ### years, so I'm going to show deference to X because of this". As a player, I do this with guys like Paul Warburton and Lynn Seaton, and when in doubt, I give them the benefit of it. I might not always agree with everything they say or play, but I recognize their right to state their opinion or play (for example) something that I might not. In cases like this, there's no problem, and all is well.

The problem comes when that respect is assumed to be deserved from everyone in all cases, or worse, demanded when not accorded from the start. A newbie may well be a fool for disagreeing with a more experienced player or luthier, but it is their right to do so. As a player, I raised a lot of eyebrows for being largely self-taught when I first got here by people like Ed Fuqua, who basically called me out when I spoke about ways of playing and/or learning that often don't work for newbies. But rather than talk down to me, he reached out by saying, "You send me some of your stuff, and I'll send you some of my stuff, and then we can have a more informed discussion about what we're really talking about". Ditto for Sam Sherry. And once these exchanges had taken place, there was some give and take on both sides. Ed and Sam pointed out some things that I could work on while admitting that what I was doing seemed to be working for me in the big picture, and I replied in kind. And from what I can tell, everybody learned something.

I also have found Ken to be an excellent resource of information about really old and rare basses, especially those that may be of some historical importance. It's his thing, he's passionate about it, and we can all learn a lot from that. When the clashes would occur with other members, it was usually with a member who was trying to do something much more basic, like trying to upgrade their really crappy first bass to a halfway decent gigging bass for some usage more often than not designated as "not orchestral", or from a someone trying to do a DYI repair on their own low end instrument who understood that it was a learning tool; or from someone posting about their pride and joy new or first bass that cost less than $2500 or so. These people usually post for encouragement, and they should be able to do that...they should be able to post a thread about a Ford without having the spectre of a Rolls Royce raised as the gold standard against which they should judge their new pride and joy means of transportation. Sometimes a guy with a new Escort just wants to say, "just got my first car, and I'm digging the hell out of not having to take the bus every day...ain't she a beaut?" And if that's what this guy is saying, more power to him as far as I'm concerned.

All of which does not mean that I don't enjoy perusing the occasional eye candy thread about basses of historical significance, nor do I want to discourage anyone from posting in or adding to those kinds of threads. They are a great resource, and I don't want to discourage those kinds of threads in any way. Heck, Paul W has got to have something to hang in his bathroom, right?

There is a time and a place for both here at TB, and we have to allow for that, which demands respect from each side for the worth of the other. We may all aspire to drive a restored 'vette someday, or maybe even a classic Rolls. But most of us get to work to earn our daily bread in something far more pedestrian. They're both valuable, just maybe for different reasons.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

That's Lieutenant Linguine to you whippersnapper.

What? You got demoted AGAIN?

 

[Uncletoad]

What? You got demoted AGAIN?

Yea. All that damn linguine. I can't run for ****.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

"I'm not Andy "Airbass" Allen, but Jeremy "Johono5" Allen."

I'm sorry J5, my head was swirling at your name change.
I've got you guys straight now.

(Damn, I'm gonna get some points already.)

 

[mchildree]

I don't know Jake, whom you directed that at, but I'd like to remind you of these names:
Jimmy Blanton
Scott LaFaro
Both of whom pretty much are responsible for the evolution of Jazz Double Bass playing, who did so before their untimely deaths.....before the age of 26.
Just wanted to point that out Grandpa.

True, very true. Except that you missed my point utterly. My comment was not a shot at Jake's ability or musical knowledge...it was his blanket dismissal of the knowledge level of just about every one else here...the "ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT" thing. Just because one of your sacred cows is being criticized is not a license to belittle a lot of people you don't know anything about.

 

[Jake]

True, very true. Except that you missed my point utterly. My comment was not a shot at Jake's ability or musical knowledge...it was his blanket dismissal of the knowledge level of just about every one else here...the "ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT" thing. Just because one of your sacred cows is being criticized is not a license to belittle a lot of people you don't know anything about.

I'm sorry if the statement I made in caps was belittling to anybody on TBDB, but Ken Smith actually is one of the few people around here, along with the pro luthiers, that do know a great deal about high end/historical basses & restoration/repair. That is not a shot at anyone's ability, musical knowledge, or anything. I hardly knew a thing about the actual basses and bows themselves before I started reading TBDB regularly this summer after being a player for years (not as many as MChildree, though ) and majoring in double bass in college. I still don't know that much.

 

[Chasarms]

That's the dilemma we find ourselves in here . . . They're both valuable, just maybe for different reasons.

Well spoken, Sir. Or, rather, written.

 

[Sam Sherry]

Well. I take a week off and look at that, there's new landlords and the next door neighbors have moved. I got a bunch of work done anyway.

Ken reminded me of me in that he was inconsistent except when he wasn't. And those were the times when he got on some peoples' nerves.

There was a post in the "I'm Gonna Torch The Board And Mods Thread & See What Happens" thread which bears resurrection here:

I've chosen to treat this board like a public record reflecting what kind of person and musician I am and how I act.

Nobody else has to do that of course. But bein' built the way I am it's real hard for me to figure out why anybody would make a different choice.

Anyway, hearty congratulations to Jeremy and Damon. Easy.

 

[Bob Branstetter]

Seems to me this can all be worked out! Ken, I think you should stay. Your dispute is not with the vast majority, only a few. Its clear a number of people value your input and want to learn from you in the future. Please, think it over.

I received an email from Ken Smith where he says that he has been banned from TalkBass by Paul. Is this true?

 

[Uncletoad]

I received an email from Ken Smith where he says that he has been banned from TalkBass by Paul. Is this true?

Yikes. The worm can just became a barrel.