Double Bass double bass mic/pickup in 2021

[DoubleMIDI]

Slightly off topic but could the AKG C411l be used with this to power it?
Prodipe BP21 Phantom Power Supply | Ferre Musique | Reverb

A phantom power supply is only that and gives you a mic level signal. The B29L is a electret power supply plus a mic preamp.
BTW, these small capsules are all electrets and only need power for the FET to deliver a loadable signal, so 9-12 volts are usually enough. But I would not cross unless you know for sure that they are compatible (same voltage, same pin).
BTW, there is a C411PP that has a standard XLR connector and could be powered by standard phantom power. But then you only have a mic level signal.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

BTW, I’m missing some highs/air with the Ehrlund EAP, I get more of it from the AKG C411. But my C411 is the old one with a mini T(R?)S with the matching B29. No L appended.
They probably only changed the connector to make it compatible with their wireless transmitters in the L version.
And I don’t use AKG putty but the white Faber-Castell that is used for the Ehrlund too.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

One more info:

The Ehrlund is a triangular piezo film membrane supported a the tips.

The Ischell and AKG use an electret capsule. For the Ischell you need to seal
It against the top or you get feedback, the AKG is already sealed, so no risk of feedback.

I doubt that the open side to the top makes a noticeable difference, since the area is so small that and top vibration would hardly push air into or out of the capsule. If there is a difference then I think it is more the selection of the mic capsule than the open end against the top.

 

[Ric Vice]

One more info:

The Ehrlund is a triangular piezo film membrane supported a the tips.

That's what makes it unique to most other pickups, unlike the Underwood, Realist Life Line, or Realist. It's wedged between
parts of the bass. It sits on the surface.

 

[LaFaro01]

That's what makes it unique to most other pickups, unlike the Underwood, Realist Life Line, or Realist. It's wedged between
parts of the bass. It sits on the surface.

and you can search for various "sweet spots" an the surface at the front or the back of the bass. This includes a kind of "natural eq", if you take enough time to look for different sweet spots...and if the Ehrlund basically works with/on your instrument...

 

[MrSidecar]

I’m doing this:

- I have the Ear Trumpet Labs Nadine on my bass. No pickup, just the mic.
- It goes into a nice preamp- the Golden Age Project Pre73 Mk3
- This preamp’s DI out into FOH, while the line out of the preamp plugs into a Walter Woods MI100-8. The amp drives an older MAS26 cabinet (4 ohms version) and that serves as my stage monitor. In rehearsals where I have to amplify, I skip either the FOH part or the amp. Depends on whether there is a decent PA in the particular rehearsal room. If the live situation is without FOH, the preamp/amp/cab but works very well to make myself heard as I want.

I play this setup with drummers. Although nothing even approaching big band volume levels. But it works, and very well it does. I can hear myself very well in all scenarios, MBOL or very very close, but if the FOH guy is particularly wild and puts up a lot of stage monitors, I’m skipping that, at least I leave my signal out of my monitor.

That setup is the culmination of almost 25 years of different pickups and preamps, amps and cabinets. Oh, and 25 years of work on solving the “in” side of the “garbage in, garbage out” paradigm.

Oh, and to answer the OPs question on mixing- I tried that but the level of complexity added to my already “exciting” cable/power supply/boxes shenanigans by using two sound sources was too much for me, and it didn’t ever once make things better for me. I’ll admit the very rare occasions on which I tried mixing were definitely nothing to write home about hardware wise (some el cheapo little 4 channel mixer). l definitely hit a point of diminishing returns there. So my way of mixing is not to mix. I’m sorry if this doesn’t help you one bit, OP.

If I ever wanted to go there, I’d probably run the pickup straight into my amp’s other channel, and then either set the channel selector to both and DI the mixed signal or only run the pickup through the amp and DI that one and the mic in the way I described before.

But imagining this cluster**** of a setup gives me shivers of horror.

Best
Sidecar

 

[Ric Vice]

Just so everyone knows, with the Ehrlund, I use the Schertler Dyn B Putty. Yes it's expensive, but it's advantage is that it's very tacky, and will form into a very thin layer. I don't think it would work with the Ischell or the AKG411 as it's to thin to form into a mound.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I had a very thin layer of the white Faber-Castell putty on my AKG. Works well. I haven‘t tried the green Schertler that I have too, since it’s expensive and I didn’t felt a need to check it out.

 

[jj.833]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I read it carefully, as well as another 50 pages of Ehrlund threads on TB. Many posts are very informative and I'd like to express how grateful I am for your openness.
My Ehrlund arrived yesterday. I had only 30 minutes to check it out, then I headed for a gig. Couldn't resist to take Ehrlund with me. Due to traffic jams, I had exactly 7 minutes to sound check. Despite all that, the sound was great, deep and strong as well as intimate. Sounded similar to how Mike Arnopol sounded in 90s, which is a sort of reference how a recorded bass should sound to me. The venue was a pub with some 50 people and there was no FOH, all the sound coming from my small rig. No feedback issues that phase switch won't solve. The idea of a pickup being sort of a bass stethoscope performing natural EQ is completely new to me and very appealing.
Today I'm gonna try it on bigband rehearsal with a cheapish ply bass. Will write what I find.
So far I only have to figure out what to do with the preamp. Seems too big and heavy to be placed on the tailpiece. I have no bow quiver. And I want to be able to use it with multiple instruments. So far it's lying on the ground, making the phase switch hard to access and the cable work generally awkward. I haven't really found the right idea yet, so if someone has a tip, please share.

 

[LaFaro01]

....
So far I only have to figure out what to do with the preamp. Seems too big and heavy to be placed on the tailpiece. I have no bow quiver. And I want to be able to use it with multiple instruments. So far it's lying on the ground, making the phase switch hard to access and the cable work generally awkward. I haven't really found the right idea yet, so if someone has a tip, please share.

When i was still using my Ehrlund preamp (before I went for the Felix ), I used to attach the preamp to the belt with the clip on the backside...

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Most users think that contact microphones work a lot better with carved instruments than with ply ones.
So better take a bridge pickup with your ply bass too.

 

[jj.833]

Most users think that contact microphones work a lot better with carved instruments than with ply ones.

Actually the sound of the ply bass (Czech Cremona) was not bad at all. Not as dark and wide as with the carved, but still way better than Copperhead Realist. I could hear everything I played, even the thumb position pizz stood strongly against the horns. And I could hear the piano clear as a bell! It's a great little gadget. On the verge of feedback, but still on the good side.

 

[jj.833]

I found a great way to store the Ehrlund attached to the bass into a gig bag. I just plug the output jack into female output of the Realist, creating an expensive and absolutely pointless Uroboros kind of wiring. It is good from the philosophical point of view, and it keeps the jack from scratching the body.

The preamp stays on the floor so far, I'm not intelligent enough to take it away when I lay the bass down.

 

[Ric Vice]

Most users think that contact microphones work a lot better with carved instruments than with ply ones.
So better take a bridge pickup with your ply bass too.

I would second that, my bass has a hardwood laminate back but the sides and top are carved.

Today I'm gonna try it on bigband rehearsal with a cheapish ply bass. Will write what I find.
So far I only have to figure out what to do with the preamp. Seems too big and heavy to be placed on the tailpiece. I have no bow quiver. And I want to be able to use it with multiple instruments. So far it's lying on the ground, making the phase switch hard to access and the cable work generally awkward. I haven't really found the right idea yet, so if someone has a tip, please share.

That's precisely why I don't use the Ehrlund Preamp anymore. I used second guitar cord from the preamp back to the amplifier. That way I could set the Ehrlund Pre some where close to me on the stand or the back of my stool.
It was always dropping of and sitting on the floor. Later I used a short guitar cord and put it alongside the amp. Neither worked very well. Just my take.

 

[Mark Gollihur]

Just some food for thought, pursuant to the original question about mixing a mic and a pickup:

PICKUPS and MICROPHONES: Getting a Good Blend

 

[Sam Reese]

Thanks Mark. I've been studying the blend of ETL Nadine and Gage's Lifeline the past few days and I will definitely utilize this EQ info and dial things accordingly on my EA Doubler and hear what it yields!

 

[jj.833]

Getting to know the Ehrlund pickup better, I've done a comparison video. Enjoy:

 

[Wasnex]

Getting to know the Ehrlund pickup better, I've done a comparison video. Enjoy:

Quite a range of results, and many are not great. I thought you pretty much nailed it with #1, but maybe #19 is better in some ways.

I think the person I know with an EAP went with a position near #7 or #8, and it sounded fabulous on his bass. I did not think either of these positions was great on your bass.

 

[jazzwalk]

Hi,
I'm seeking advice on how to mix mic and pickup in my bass, and what mic to choose.

I'm playing two basses, carved with lifeline and ply with copperhead Realist. I play big band on various stages, and small club bands with drums. Generally I like my sound, but still I'm thinking about how to make it sound more realistic.

I've been thinking I'd try to add a microphone, which i would mix with piezzo sound, say 50/50, or even 90/10 in case of feedback.

What microphone to use? I'm leaning towards Ischell mic (on the gooseneck, not the contact), or some other which would allow to set its position according to my taste. I know Nadine is highly regarded here, but I'm afraid it's too far from the bass, which might be more prone to feedback.

Also, what would you use to mix the piezzo with the mic? I like the idea of a small bass mounted gadget, if it can be had with volume for each channel and a phase switch. This I would send to my Sans amp Paradriver. Or, a two channel stomp box might also work well, in which case i would bypass the Sansamp.

I wonder if someone uses similar method effectively. Thank you very much!

~~~
I've had my Troll for some years now, used with a Raven Labs PMB blending preamp, but it also works just fine with a D-TAR Solstice preamp blender; two items no longer produced, unfortunately. The additional input has been produced with a Fishman BP-100, the piezos of which sandwiched between pieces of a free paint stirring stick from Lowes (or Ace Hardware, or Home Depot), and gently sanded down until they're squeezed into the bridge slots, keeping in mind that piezos should be pressured somewhat, to work well. [recently though, I changed back to my custom double-piezo K&K].
Using the RL PMB preamp blender with the Troll ribbon mic, the trick is this: as the input impedance on the PMB "mic" input is 820K Ohms, and the other input's same is 10Meg Ohms, the Troll gets connected the other input with 10Meg ohms input impedance; the piezo pickup is connected to the "mic" input; in other words, they're swapped. (How Impedance Can Change The Sound of Your Ribbon Microphone is a good place to start reading, to better understand why I choose to do it this way )
By relatively adjusting the input volumes (besides the bass, mid, and treble equalization) for each, I can better dial in the desired timbre in any given playing environment, especially given that arco play constitutes about half of what I usually do. Finally, the Troll's input volume on the PMB is typically ~12 o'clock, while the piezos' volume is typically no higher than 8 o'clock.

 

[rickwolff]

I run a Schoeps CMC1 MK4 and have a Realist Life Line. I used to blend the Lifeline with an ATM mic. It was like 50/50. Now that I have the Schoeps I have yet to need piezo. That is playing mostly in piano bass drum trios. Frequently with a heavy handed drummer. I have a really old(1850) carved bass into an AI Clarus and either an MAS 28 or a Genzler 123SLT cab. Other bass players have told me that my tone was so natural they thought I had no amp and were wondering how I kept up with drums. The Schoeps is a little pricey and after you own it your search for “that sound” will be over. No feedback, no issue with bleed, and stupid simple to dial in your sound. Really good investment.

My wife just asked the mods to remove your post. She also confiscated my credit card. Happy New Year!