Double Bass Doubling in a Musical - HELP, PLEASE!

[Crissy Martinez]

Hi all!

I am playing Avenue Q: The Musical this season and as some of you may know, the book calls for upright and electric bass. I am used to doubling for shows, so that's not the issue.

I DO need help (YOUR input) with building the right setup that will (ideally) allow me to switch between both basses without having to unplug anything. Something like an A/B switch pedal or BOSS TU-3 should work right? I used a BOSS TU-3 for A Chorus Line a while back, but I think I still had to swap cables (just one end) and turn my amp's master volume down to switch...can't remember. I would like to know how to eliminate that!

Here's what I'm working with so far:

-GK MB-2X12 Combo Amp with passive/active input and D.I. (no mute button )
-2006 MIA FSR "Hot Rod" Fender Jazz Bass Deluxe (my baby!) w/ matching headstock. Passive.
-Carved upright bass with an Underwood p/u & K&K Bass Max p/u (deciding between the two at the moment but I have them both...K&K sounds great bowed through my D.I box so far
-L.R. Baggs Para Acoustic D.I. Box

So, I think I am on the right track, haha. I feel like I could make it better though.

Last night for rehearsal I just turned down the Master Volume on my bass amp, then pulled the cable going from the D.I. to the amp and plugged it into my electric. That's okay for slower rehearsals but some of those vamps are pretty quick and I would like to change basses silently and quickly!

**an idea just I had was to plug the D.I. box with my upright going through it into the ACTIVE input on my bass amp, and just leave my electric plugged into the passive input. Perhaps I could just use a BOSS TU-3 to mute the upright while I'm playing electric??? Good or bad?

Lay it on me!

Thanks in advance!

 

[tyb507]

A two-channel amp or preamp would be best. Something like this:
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The Boss pedal you mentioned is a tuner, no?

 

[NickyBass]

Maybe a Bassbone? http://www.tonebone.com/bassbone.php

 

[Dogbertday]

Can they Gove you two separate channels and just send one or both direct? when I've done this is send my upright direct and my electric direct but also have an amp.

 

[Crissy Martinez]

A two-channel amp or preamp would be best. Something like this:


The Boss pedal you mentioned is a tuner, no?

Yes! It's a tuner but I also used it as like a mute switch as it has a bypass mode on it. I wish I could afford a TONE BONE right now!

 

[Eric Hochberg]

If your amp has an effects return, you could try the Fender through that but you will still have to mute the upright when it's not being used. I don't know if a passive setup into the effects return will drive it though. An A/B pedal will work. You'll just have to find tone and volume settings that will be good for both basses.

Since it sounds like you're doing shows, a 2 channel amp like the EA Doubler will make your life easier.

 

[Febs]

**an idea just I had was to plug the D.I. box with my upright going through it into the ACTIVE input on my bass amp, and just leave my electric plugged into the passive input. Perhaps I could just use a BOSS TU-3 to mute the upright while I'm playing electric??? Good or bad?

Are your basses going to be sent through the PA as well, or are you responsible for carrying the house with whatever amplification you're using in the pit?

If your basses are going to be sent through the PA, talk with the sound designer and see whether he would prefer using a single channel for both basses or using separate channels, one for the electric and one for the upright. Most sound designers will want separate channels so that they can set EQ and levels separately for each bass, but sometimes (usually if they don't have enough channels available), they'll want both basses on a single channel.

If the sound designer is going to use one channel for each bass, you may be able to send him a direct signal from the LR Baggs pre, or even to mic the upright. He may be able to give you back some bass in the monitors if you or other players in the pit need to hear more of the upright.

If you need to send both basses through your amp (for example, if the sound designer is only using one channel for bass, or if there is no PA reinforcement for the basses), I just looked up your amp on GK's website, and unless I'm looking at the wrong model, it only has a single input. If you can't afford the Tonebone, you could try something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/ABY-Selector-...TF8&qid=1412089152&sr=8-1&keywords=aby+switch

Send the upright through the LR Baggs pre and then through one channel of the ABY switch, and send the electric directly through the other channel of the ABY switch, and take the output of the ABY switch to the input of the amp. This will allow you to set the EQ on the amp itself for the electric, and then to use the LR Baggs pre to adjust the upright levels to match and to allow you to adjust EQ for the upright.

 

[Matt Ides]

Get the realist docking station to turn the pick up signal off.

 

[jthisdell]

I double between my NS Design NXT EUB and a Fender P using a Behringer AB switch. Quiet and pretty cheap. My only issue is I like to run - AB switch - tuner - limiter - preamp - chorus - amp so both instruments go through the preamp w/compression. When I do that the P is much louder than the NXT so I have to pad the active/passive input on my Fender Rumble 150 head and adjust the volume. I think I need to fool around and go - preamp - AB - tuner - limiter - chorus - amp so the P does not go through the preamp and see if the volumes equalize out better. (Although the Behringer AB has two level controls they are for when the unit is an AB output switch as opposed to an AB input. So in AB input mode only one level control works.)


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[tmntfan]

if you can't go with the bassbone i would suggest a cheap a/b switch pedal and a volume pedal. then set the full open volume to your electic bass (i'm guess will have the lower output) and bring it down when playing upright.
if you amp is close you could just turn down rather than mess with another pedal too.

 

[eddododo]

Cheap a/b box with independent volumes, simplest cheapest boom

 

[dderatz]

I run my electric into a Line 6 pod, and upright into Sadowsky preamp, then both into a MOrley ABC. Both the POD and Sadowsky pre are mutable, and the ABC allows me to select, so I usually do not mute from the POD or pre.

 

[Feral Feline]

RADIAL PZ-PRE

 

[redwookie]

Radial Engineering Big Shot

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Inexpensive ($80-ish). Quiet latch-type switch.

 

[tjontheroad]

Maybe a Bassbone? http://www.tonebone.com/bassbone.php

+1

 

[Carl Hillman]

I used a Whirlwind A/B box that sat on top of my amp for years. The problem I had was equalizing the gain between the upright and electric. My electric has a much hotter signal.
I solved this by putting a (Fishman) preamp between my upright and the A/B.

That worked until "Wicked" came along. That book required fretted, fretless, and upright. So I had Brian at Loop-Master make a custon A/B/C box for me.

As orchestrations are reduced from their original Broadway runs, arrangers end up putting more and more notes into the bass book. Sometimes you're playing what was a cello part, a horn part, or a trombone part in addition to what was there originally. Consequently, the time allowed for switching basses can get ridiculously short.

If you don't have one, you may want to get a stand for your upright and volume pedal to put between it and your amp. Also, straplocks on your electric may be a good idea, as there have been a few shows where you don't even have time to take the bass off to play upright. There are some numbers in "Evita" in which you have to sling the electric over your shoulder while playing the upright in the stand so you won't be late on the next entrance.

Good luck

 

[Crissy Martinez]

Are your basses going to be sent through the PA as well, or are you responsible for carrying the house with whatever amplification you're using in the pit?

If your basses are going to be sent through the PA, talk with the sound designer and see whether he would prefer using a single channel for both basses or using separate channels, one for the electric and one for the upright. Most sound designers will want separate channels so that they can set EQ and levels separately for each bass, but sometimes (usually if they don't have enough channels available), they'll want both basses on a single channel.

If the sound designer is going to use one channel for each bass, you may be able to send him a direct signal from the LR Baggs pre, or even to mic the upright. He may be able to give you back some bass in the monitors if you or other players in the pit need to hear more of the upright.

If you need to send both basses through your amp (for example, if the sound designer is only using one channel for bass, or if there is no PA reinforcement for the basses), I just looked up your amp on GK's website, and unless I'm looking at the wrong model, it only has a single input. If you can't afford the Tonebone,

Send the upright through the LR Baggs pre and then through one channel of the ABY switch, and send the electric directly through the other channel of the ABY switch, and take the output of the ABY switch to the input of the amp. This will allow you to set the EQ on the amp itself for the electric, and then to use the LR Baggs pre to adjust the upright levels to match and to allow you to adjust EQ for the upright.

There are 2 inputs on the GK I have, its an older model than the new ones in the MB series. Passive and Active. Wouldn't it be fine if I plugged the upright (going through the baggs) into the active and my jazz bass directly into the passive input on my amp?

 

[Eric Hochberg]

There are 2 inputs on the GK I have, its an older model than the new ones in the MB series. Passive and Active. Wouldn't it be fine if I plugged the upright (going through the baggs) into the active and my jazz bass directly into the passive input on my amp?

Why don't you try that and report back?!!!! You still may need to mute the upright somehow when not being used.

 

[BHBassman]

I've tried with doubling w/two amps, volume pedals, stands, 2 ch amps...
Inexpensive fix: DOO 240 Resistance Mixer. 4 passive inputs.
There'll be separate cables for anything. Use short lengths to the mixer from preamps, if necessary. You get a handle on the cable "spaghetti" & get a system.
You can Velcro pedals down & quickly turn the mixer pedal, set already with your desired volumes.
Worked for me in a few major theaters & shows.

 

[robobass]

... Most sound designers will want separate channels so that they can set EQ and levels separately for each bass, but sometimes (usually if they don't have enough channels available), they'll want both basses on a single channel....

IME, most soundmen on big shows have way more channels (and knobs in general) to fuss with than they actually need. I doubt that any would object to a separate channel for upright and electric. I would suggest that you leave both instruments plugged in and active, but set up stands which damp the strings. That is, place the instrument so that the strings lean against a piece of foam when not in use. Then you have no pedals to deal with when making changes.