Drop tune - why is it looked down on?

[cnltb]

Not sure if this is the right spot for this thread - feel free to move it if you want mods.

SO.

I've noticed this growing trend where people hate on drop tuning, and things like "real men play in standard" are commonly said. Not so much here, but i see it every once in a while. I've been wondering - why the negative stigma? It's just for a different style of play. I like drop and standard tunes, just depends on how I want to write a song. Why all the hate, peeps?

I don't mind it at all.
In the right context it can sound really good I think.
It gives the bass another tone altogether regardless of lower notes.
I tune my 5er down a minor 3rd sometimes and it's great fun!!

 

[dj150888]

I am still working on it, refining it. I plan on being exactly like William F. Buckley by the time I hit 50.

Best of luck with that!

Just in passing, I gave a couple of your tracks a listen.....they're just as simplistic as a whole lot of rock and metal out there. That said, I quite dig some of the Hula Girls tracks, particularly The Curse of the Tiki, but criticizing something for being simplistic while also playing something rather simplistic yourself? A tad strange.

 

[lucas vigor]

You are quite right. But, that is/was only one of many projects I have done, or am involved with. That's a rockabilly band. It's not meant to be really technically challenging. Actually, I only sub in that band now. I pretty much gave it up in favor of the jazz and classical I do. And again, the point I was trying to make was that learning bad habits (like drop tuning to make riffs easier) will pretty much guarantee that simpler forms of music are all you will ever be able to play. And what happens when you start growing musically, and want to expand your horizons? Not learning proper bass techniques will become a severe handicap later on. Now, if you want to play metal your whole life, even when you become an old dude like me, then never mind...do what you want. There are plenty of singer song writers out there making money and using a capo on their guitar necks (it's a similar concept). I just think it holds you back if you ever want to try something different.

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Having said that, Joni Mitchell has made quite a career out of drop tuning.

Also, another point about drop tuning: If this is how you play, your main focus...it makes it really hard if anyone wants you to sit in with their band, and you didn't bring your bass or guitar. This has happened to me many times, where I go to see a friend's band and they drag me up for a number.

 

[dj150888]

You are quite right. But, that is/was only one of many projects I have done, or am involved with. That's a rockabilly band. It's not meant to be really technically challenging. Actually, I only sub in that band now. I pretty much gave it up in favor of the jazz and classical I do.

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Just like rock and metal isn't supposed to be technically challenging?

My point is, there are other reasons to play music. If I want a technical workout, you're right, I'll sit and play a couple of fusion songs, if I want to play a high energy show, to a very responsive crowd, I'm going to play something else. Horses for courses and all that.

I gave your solo stuff a listen, its all very....safe sounding, elevator music type stuff to me. I'd much rather listen to the songs you did with The Hula Girls. I guess being technical isn't everything.

 

[Beginner Bass]

I feel that drop-tuning can make certain songs far more practical to play. For example, has anyone here tried the outro to Tool's "Vicarious" (I know, it's an acquired taste) on a 5-string. I have to use a bunch of taping to get all of those slurs. I still can't do it, actually.

 

[Devaghost]

I play with folk singer-songwriter types who sometimes capo the first fret and play in D, which puts the tonic at Eb. That leaves four options: play up the neck, play below the tonic, buy a five-string or drop tune. Actually, there's a fifth option but unfortunately it's illegal to kill singer-songwriters.

 

[scat1234]

I play in standard tuning, I am auditioning right now and while I have nothing against drop tuning as long as you don't involve me.

As a matter of fact I was at a audition this week. And the gutarist asked me to tune to e flat which would have caused me to transpose what I had learned for the audition.

I said no problem and start backing up my bass.

Whats wrong?

Nothing guys, but I don't do the whole drop tune thing. I am not your guy, Good luck.

I am thinking of picking up a staight 5 bass, nothing fancy I see Squire still has one, which is cool.I don't want to invest much $$ in 5 String gear.

smart move packing up. i had the same thing happen at an audition, stuck it out for an hour, then left. shouldnt have even finished setting up. the guitarist was a real jerk about it, btw.

 

[scat1234]

1. People are ignorant
2. They're old and incapable and incompentent to be able to use their ear in more than "standard" E tuning which they make up for by trying to poke at others who are talented enough to do so.

Plus if you read anything here from a lot of pros and heavy giggers you see that even 5'ers still have a stigma attached to them and don't like them so you have to tune down your 4 to play along. So those "just use a 5" suggestions are useless and ignorant as usual.

spoken like a true 14 year old with a real attitude problem.

 

[Jmathews8]

I just don't like the clunky sound you get when drop tuning. Drop D doesn't make that many problems, but when you get to drop C that's when things end up sounding dull and clanky. And not like a good clank

 

[Burlington]

Actually, I do. I just grew up and put away childish, simplistic things like Heavy Metal many, many years ago.


When I was 12, my two favorite bands were Priest and AC/DC.

And let's say that about 15 years ago, I was in a hard rock band that was quite popular locally, and they were drop tuning all the time, mostly so they could play power 5ths as riffs,with one finger. (The guitarist for a while was the son of the owner of a very large guitar company that specializes in axes for heavy metal, whose name I don't want to say). This was music that was very much in the vein of Korn. I pretty much hated it, but the guys were my bros....so I stayed longer then I should have. That was the last hard rock/metal band I ever played with.

So please don't assume that the music I play now, when I am middle aged, is the only music I have any experience with.

And that confirms to me that you have no idea what current metal is nowadays.

 

[Burlington]

spoken like a true 14 year old with a real attitude problem.

And you have spoken like a know-it-all who has no experience whatsoever in non standard tunings.

 

[lucas vigor]

And that confirms to me that you have no idea what current metal is nowadays.

Chugging, brutal riffs. Cookie monster vocals. Swedish and Scandinavian bands like Children of Bodom..... Pointy guitars, hung really low, almost to the knees. The entire band either looks like professional wrestlers or looks like the guys that get beat up by professional wrestlers....is that what you are talking about?

If so, I have heard them. Like rap music, it's music for kids trying real hard to sound tough and scary. The subject matter and lyrics sound like the kind of stuff we use to scribble in our notebooks while bored in the classroom, when we were 13 years old and first trying drugs.

Sorry, I would rather listen to Frank Sinatra. or Rush.

And just so you know, metal has not changed that much since the days of Priest and Sabbath. It just got faster, more rythmic. The use of minor keys, modified blues scales, pentatonic scales are all still there. The difference is that the original heavy metal bands pretty much came up with this stuff on their own, so in a sense, it was very original. The new stuff is based on what you heard your older brothers or dads listen to, throw in some thrash and punk elements, and you got modern day metal.

And what always cracks me up is when a metal head like you tries to sit in with a real musical band, and tries to fit those same riffs and scales into an actual song. it never works, and ends up sounding bush league.

Metal heads are completely unaware of what a guitar is supposed to sound like. You think it comes out of the womb already distorted and loud.

What you guys with your metal do is deeply restricted only to your favorite genre of music, and can rarely be used anywhere else.

I will go you one further and say that you can quickly train a jazz or classical musician to learn your riffs, probably within a week. heck, I know musicians that could sight read any one of your "shredding" solos, even on a violin.


But try and step in their world, and see how hard jazz and classical music is compared to what you do.

yeah, I know what modern metal is. I don't like it, but that does not mean I am unaware of what it sounds like. Ever heard of youtube?

 

[Burlington]

Chugging, brutal riffs. Cookie monster vocals. Swedish and Scandinavian bands like Children of Bodom..... Pointy guitars, hung really low, almost to the knees. The entire band either looks like professional wrestlers or looks like the guys that get beat up by professional wrestlers....is that what you are talking about?

If so, I have heard them. Like rap music, it's music for kids trying real hard to sound tough and scary. The subject matter and lyrics sound like the kind of stuff we use to scribble in our notebooks while bored in the classroom, when we were 13 years old and first trying drugs.

Sorry, I would rather listen to Frank Sinatra. or Rush.

And just so you know, metal has not changed that much since the days of Priest and Sabbath. It just got faster, more rythmic. The use of minor keys, modified blues scales, pentatonic scales are all still there. The difference is that the original heavy metal bands pretty much came up with this stuff on their own, so in a sense, it was very original. The new stuff is based on what you heard your older brothers or dads listen to, throw in some thrash and punk elements, and you got modern day metal.

And what always cracks me up is when a metal head like you tries to sit in with a real musical band, and tries to fit those same riffs and scales into an actual song. it never works, and ends up sounding bush league.

Metal heads are completely unaware of what a guitar is supposed to sound like. You think it comes out of the womb already distorted and loud.

What you guys with your metal do is deeply restricted only to your favorite genre of music, and can rarely be used anywhere else.

I will go you one further and say that you can quickly train a jazz or classical musician to learn your riffs, probably within a week. heck, I know musicians that could sight read any one of your "shredding" solos, even on a violin.


But try and step in their world, and see how hard jazz and classical music is compared to what you do.

yeah, I know what modern metal is. I don't like it, but that does not mean I am unaware of what it sounds like. Ever heard of youtube?

COUGH COUGH sorry I was overwhelmed by your smugness!

I will say again, you have no idea, and you're just making yourself look like an old fool.

 

[Febs]

COUGH COUGH sorry I was overwhelmed by your smugness!

I will say again, you have no idea, and you're just making yourself look like an old fool.

It's been 3 days. Are you going to provide the Guitar Pro files, or are you just going to continue to engage in pissing contests? You keep complaining about how people don't understand your music, but you seem more intent on insulting other people than in having an honest dialog about where you're coming from.

 

[Burlington]

It's been 3 days. Are you going to provide the Guitar Pro files, or are you just going to continue to engage in pissing contests? You keep complaining about how people don't understand your music, but you seem more intent on insulting other people than in having an honest dialog about where you're coming from.

If you read back, I offered that anyone who sends me their email address will get the files. So far, no one has messaged me with their address.

How am I insulting? Did you even read what he posted?

 

[zachoff]

Chugging, brutal riffs. Cookie monster vocals. Swedish and Scandinavian bands like Children of Bodom..... Pointy guitars, hung really low, almost to the knees. The entire band either looks like professional wrestlers or looks like the guys that get beat up by professional wrestlers....is that what you are talking about?

If so, I have heard them. Like rap music, it's music for kids trying real hard to sound tough and scary. The subject matter and lyrics sound like the kind of stuff we use to scribble in our notebooks while bored in the classroom, when we were 13 years old and first trying drugs.

Sorry, I would rather listen to Frank Sinatra. or Rush.

And just so you know, metal has not changed that much since the days of Priest and Sabbath. It just got faster, more rythmic. The use of minor keys, modified blues scales, pentatonic scales are all still there. The difference is that the original heavy metal bands pretty much came up with this stuff on their own, so in a sense, it was very original. The new stuff is based on what you heard your older brothers or dads listen to, throw in some thrash and punk elements, and you got modern day metal.

And what always cracks me up is when a metal head like you tries to sit in with a real musical band, and tries to fit those same riffs and scales into an actual song. it never works, and ends up sounding bush league.

Metal heads are completely unaware of what a guitar is supposed to sound like. You think it comes out of the womb already distorted and loud.

What you guys with your metal do is deeply restricted only to your favorite genre of music, and can rarely be used anywhere else.

I will go you one further and say that you can quickly train a jazz or classical musician to learn your riffs, probably within a week. heck, I know musicians that could sight read any one of your "shredding" solos, even on a violin.


But try and step in their world, and see how hard jazz and classical music is compared to what you do.

yeah, I know what modern metal is. I don't like it, but that does not mean I am unaware of what it sounds like. Ever heard of youtube?

They don't have "rap band" and "metal band" in junior high and high school but they do have orchestra and jazz band. Which kind of music is for kids again?

I'm sure you know about as much about metal as I do about jazz, but I do know there are different kinds of jazz... Smooth, free form, bebop, experimental, etc. To say every metal band out there sounds like Children of Bodom or looks like Immortal is silly. It's like saying all jazz is Kenny G cheese.

Again you're confusing me with someone who cares how hard something is to play. I've said before, I try to make my parts easy to play because I'm singing too.

Again, you're also confusing playing with writing. Saying "I will go you one further and say that you can quickly train a jazz or classical musician to learn your riffs, probably within a week." is totally beside the point. I could probably learn a jazz piece if I put my mind to it too. Writing is the hard part. Anyone can learn... Not everyone can write.

 

[Burlington]

Honestly Lucas, I'd rather listen to Frankie or Rush than most metal myself! But, you are lumping everything together, and that just doesn't make sense. It's bigger and broader and has more meaning than you think.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

LOL

Good lord, it seems that any discussion of "metal" always devolves into a strange insulting/pissing/insecurity frenzy.

Now, I want to see a "jazz" thread melt down like this... but I'll not hold my breath.

 

[dj150888]

Man, just stop insulting my bebop! You kids and your country music, you just don't get it! I bet you can't even tell the difference between jazz and swing! Pffft!

 

[Burlington]

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