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Drums bleeding into vocal mic live...

At the end of the day, and taking all of the above suggestions into consideration, the loudest sound to the mic wins. The best solution is always to fix it at the source. Work on her projection and/or mic technique. The drum shields will help contain the drum somewhat, but as close together as you sound like you are, it's not likely to be as effective as one would think. Talking to your drummer about dynamics would go a long ways towards solving your problem.
 
In my experience SM58s are particularly bad about picking up bleed from the snare and cymbals. Part of the issue is the SM58 is very forgiving about mic technique, which can result in the vocalist singing too far from the mic. For maximum bleed rejection, the lips should be touching or close to touching the head of the mic, especially with a weak singer.

A more directional mic can definitely help. But as others have said, it won't totally fix the problem alone. Also, more directional mics are less forgiving about mic technique, so the vocalist must sing right on top of the capsule. If they sing too far from the mic, it won't pick up their voice as well as an SM58.

The more directional a mic is, typically the stronger the proximity effect. Also proximity effect varies with distance between the source and mic.

Proximity Effect:
upload_2022-4-29_15-5-33-png.4675341

Notice the mic picks up more lows as the sound source is moved closer.

I suggest considering the proximity effect as a bonus feature, rather than a problem. In order to compensate for proximity effect, the audio tech will need to cut the lows and scoop out the low mids. By making these corrective EQ changes, the vocals sound natural and the mic is less sensitive to low frequency feedback and bleed from other instruments.

The EQ curve I use for vocals starts out something like this.
upload_2020-9-24_1-24-28-png.3994691

The low frequency cut balances out the proximity effect. Most of my experience is on Yamaha digital mixers. I typically configure the channel strip for 4 bands of parametric EQ with variable HPF.

Dialing in a good sound takes knowledge, skill, and practice.

The other things that have been mentioned are helpful as well. Band lay out is a relevant factor. But frequently bands center both the drums and lead vocalist. This pretty much aims the most sensitive part of the mic towards the drums. It can be beneficial to offset the vocalist to the left or right and aim the mic slightly away from the drums.
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Specifically choosing the right equipment and using the right technique to reduce the acoustic volume of the drums is also an important factor. Many drummers refuse to believe they have any ability to play quietly, or they insist that drums have to be brutally loud in order to sound good.

Complete rubbish IMHO. I do agree that quieter drums will not create exactly the same effect as bashed drums, but IMHO that can still sound really good if the drummer knows what he/she is doing, chooses the right equipment, and works on the necessary control. But of course, part of the charm of playing drums is bashing...so good luck getting the desired change.

Drums shields can also make a pretty significant difference for the overall mic, but the drummer will probably hate the almost as much as playing with restraint. Also shields tend to be rather expensive and are a hassle to carry around and set up. For the record, I toured extensively and almost always used drum shields in smaller venues.

Maybe your audio tech is incompetent. But in truth, none of the factors you have discussed are necessarily within the audio techs control. All of these problems are within the bands control providing they are willing to actually makes the necessary changes. I suggest putting the blame where it actually belongs.

IMHO, the best solution is for the drummer to play quieter, and for the singer to stay right on top of the mic and sing louder. Adjusting the band layout, using a more directional vocal mic, and using drum shields should also make incremental improvements. There is no silver bullet unless you want to put the singer in a vocal booth on stage.

Good luck!
 
I have been through the same exercise and have vastly reduced drum bleed into the vocal mics, this is what has worked (for me);

1. I have changed my SM58 (cardioid) mic for a SE V7 (super-cardioid) mic. SM58’s are notorious for picking up ANYTHING! A super cardioid mic will cut SOME of the noise from the sides.

2. I used to position my mic in its stand holder pretty much horizontally, I have raised this to approximately 45 degrees thus angling it away from the direction of the drums.

3. The guitarist has still got an SM58 so I have asked him to alter the angle of his mic from being horizontal to approx. 45 degrees.

4. I have reduced the vocal mic of the guitarist in my IEM’s. Angling his mic at 45 degrees has definitely improved matters but not eliminated drum bleed but reducing his volume has made a difference to what I hear personally.

I hope the above is of assistance to you.
 
@dirtychinchilla Quiet singers are the "thing" these days so we must deal. You can blame shift to your sound person or help them, your call. Quiet singers either need space from loud instruments or isolation from them, either a drum booth or drum shield or some sort of isolation shield for the singer. Some mics do reject extraneous noise better than others unlike the ubiquitous SM58 so some homework might be in order for a better match for your vocalist.
A condenser mic might help because part of the problem is boosting the SM58 to get the sensitivity for the delicate vox is also dramatically increasing the sensitivity to every other sound including bass and drums. Even moving the singer away from the center in front of the drums will help.

 
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Lighter sticks + eat the mic.
It would be absurd to bring plexiglass panels into a pub.
transitioning to in ear monitors if you are currently using monitor wedges helps everything.
If the rest of the stage feels quieter, the drummer should naturally lighten up.
 
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Have you tried a plexi shield in front of the drummer to muffle from the mic a bit?
This is what I was going to suggest. A Beta 58 will just pick up more of everything because it's hotter. The different pattern is more relevant to monitor placement than anything else, which far too few people seem to know.

You have two choices: Find a way to make her louder or find a way to make the drums quieter. A baffle or shield between the drums and the singer can help there.

Other things you can look at would include her mic technique. If she's got a quiet voice and is also mic shy, that's a recipe for feedback. She needs to get up close and personal with the microphone and she needs to learn how to work it so that her quiet passages have her close to the microphone. There is a proximity effect when you're right up on there that boosts the lows, but that can be EQ'd for and if her voice is quiet she probably needs to be up there more often than not.

Part of this is a signal-to-noise issue. Your drummer bleeding into the mics shouldn't really be a huge issue as it shouldn't be contributing a whole lot to the overall loudness of the already-loud drums. But if your singer is too quiet, bumping her up is also bumping up those drum bleeds to unacceptable levels. She needs to learn how to be much louder in the mic than drum bleed. That should not be that difficult, but if her technique is poor then she's not getting far enough above the noise to give the soundman a viable signal.

I don't see any additional gear-related fixes to this problem. This is a problem with behavior and those are the toughest problems to fix.
 
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A Beta 58 is a little hotter and less prone to feedback than a SM58
In my experience, Beta58s feedback much more readily under most real-world applications, because most people still put the monitors directly in front of them like with a regular 58. They are designed to have monitors placed to each side, but that part of the user manual seems to not be read very often.
 
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@dirtychinchilla Quiet singers are the "thing" these days so we must deal. You can blame shift to your sound person or help them, your call. Quiet singers either need space from loud instruments or isolation from them, either a drum booth or drum shield or some sort of isolation shield for the singer. Some mics do reject extraneous noise better than others unlike the ubiquitous SM58 so some homework might be in order for a better match for your vocalist.
A condenser mic might help because part of the problem is boosting the SM58 to get the sensitivity for the delicate vox is also dramatically increasing the sensitivity to every other sound including bass and drums. Even moving the singer away from the center in front of the drums will help.



Our singer stands right in front of the drums but drum bleed through his mic doesn’t seem to be a great issue, he uses a Sennheiser wireless mic.

Some of the stages we play on aren’t huge and this exasperates the situation. I think mic type and mic placement both have a big impact, it is surprising what a difference having a super-cardioid mic and angling the mic upwards and not directly facing the drums/cymbols makes.
 
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Don't discount the cymbal baffles. They help a lot more than you would think with exactly what you are describing.

edit: You don't have to get the big round ones, there are rectangular ones that don't look as weird.

I would try this before I do anything else.
 
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Our singer stands right in front of the drums but drum bleed through his mic doesn’t seem to be a great issue, he uses a Sennheiser wireless mic.

Some of the stages we play on aren’t huge and this exasperates the situation. I think mic type and mic placement both have a big impact, it is surprising what a difference having a super-cardioid mic and angling the mic upwards and not directly facing the drums/cymbols makes.
Proper vocal mic technique is a must but it is rarely taught and seemingly even harder to learn. Lot's of good advice on YouTube.

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I have mixed with SM58, Beta 58, and Beta 87. In my experience Beta 58 has the best rejection of bleed from surrounding instruments. Beta 87 has extended HF response and can be problematic with bleed from cymbals, but in my experience, it still had way better bleed rejection than an SM58.

I frequently preferred the sound of the Beta 87, but both of my peer audio techs preferred the slightly better rejection of the Beta 58. IMHO the Beta 58 is very good sounding mic for most vocalists.

SM58 picks up bleed from pretty much everything, and IMHO is by far the worst of the three. To be honest I don't think I have used a SM58 since the early 90s. I know many old school vocalists swear by them because they are so easy to work with. But from an audio tech's perspective, I think they are pretty awful. I moved on to SM86 from SM58 and was very happy with the improvement in tone.

In small spaces, we used almost every trick in the book. Highly directional mics, eating the mic, small drum set (Yamaha Hip Gig) with drum shields, skilled drummer with a light touch, brushs/blast sticks, etc.

I also have experience with ampless set ups that used electronic drums and IEMs. The only stage sound we had with this system was the dull thud of the drum sticks hitting the pads and the singer's voices.

Many drummers lack the interest and knowledge to successfully use electronic drums. Also many drummers absolutely hate electronic drums.
 
First, put a noise gate on the singer's mic. It will take a certain signal level for the gate to open and allow a signal through. This will take care of drum bleed when she isn't singing.
Set the high shelf and low shelf in the eq. This rolls off frequencies that are higher or lower in the channel than the range you want to concentrate on. That should help with the kick drum and cymbals.when she is singing.
Singer needs to work on her power but the drummer needs to work on dynamics. Is the drummer mic'd? What are y'all doing for stage volume? Hopefully everyone is mic'd up and running through the PA. With stage momitors or in ear monitors, you guys should be able to control the stage volume so the drummer doesn't have the beat the crap out of the drums so he can hear.
 
I agree that the drummer needs to be quieter, especially as bass and guitar are on DIs, that's the only loud thing left on stage. The drummer might have to take one for the team and play more quietly. Electronic drums would fix it, and as you're talking about doing MTV style songs as you said yourself, then an electronic kit would possibly reinforce that vibe anyway :-)
 

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