• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Drums bleeding into vocal mic live...

#141
jpmcbride said:
If you're playing small pubs, why are you mic'ing the drums? In the situation I usually only mic the kick. The rest of the kit is loud enough without mic'ing it.
Click to expand...
If I'm reading the original post right, the drums aren't being mic'd (except accidentally by the vocal mic)... but if they are, yeah, that's just silly in a small venue. If you're going to do silent stage at a coffee shop you better have EKits, modelers, and a strong PA, or else it won't be silent. Don't mic the drums in this scenario.
I think stage tetris is your best bet here. Move drummer and singer until it stops. We use SM58's in small spaces and do fine... we do mostly sing loud though. Maybe singer can move around a bit more when singing? I don't know.
 
#142
As a longtime sound engineer, there are some simple things to consider. Fiddling with plexi sheets on bar stages is often not a good idea.

- by the most directional mic, i would say a Audix OM7 for the singer. Let her touch it with her lips always, you want maximum rejection, EQ the 250 Hz Bump out. Don´t compress. Scrap any "mic technique".
- baffle down the drums with dampers, tape the Cymbals, and let him play with HotRod / Silent Sticks
- get the rest of the Stage volume to fit the drum volume.

and really encourage the singer to take some lessons ... in this case, the most problems a caused by the singer. It´s easier to sing light, but you have to if you are a bar singer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ricardol
#143
From the OP's profile this may be the band in question.
Evading Solaris
https://www.facebook.com/evadingsolaris/videos
If so while the sound is fairly raw the singer is on the mic and seems to have some vocal output as the vocal generally is somewhat on top of the "mix", in a couple videos it's fairly buried though. The drums are either heavy in the mix or just loud in the room right off the stage.
 
#144
My band has 2 really strong singers and Acustic drums on small stages is just a nightmare. We go with electronic drums in those (and most situations). Roland electronic drums have really changed the game on this stuff. Plus it will help save you guys from having ringing ears later in life. One suggestion, run the drums through a sizable PA speaker on stage otherwise things sound empty. So, let’s say you spend $5k on nice drums and another $3k on in-ears. You might think that’s a lot of money. But, I promise - saving yourself from getting Tinnitus and having decades of being able to play gigs with the right gear for a total of $8k will be the best money you ever spent.

As the band owner, I paid for all of the above as well as a digital mixer and nice QSC PA and all I ever question is why didn’t I do it sooner.
 
  • Like
Reactions: fokof and Wasnex
#145
Six month old thread, but I'll jump in.

We make recordings in our rehearsal room every day we play and got a lot of good takes (Cubase 11.5) - except the voice. Thoe vocal mics are full of drums, how described here.

We are playing with inear, guitars 1. with Bluetone and DI, 2. silent cab with 12" and two mics inside, Bass DI of Mesa WD800, Keyboards stereo DI.

It is nearly a silent stage - but the drums are too loud in the vocal mics. The singer (female/male) are singing loud enough, anyway it is nearly impossible to seperate the voice from drum. If I gate the vocals, in the gated moments the sound is very good, but when vocals are opening the gate, you hear a mixture of a good loud voice and good loud drums... Impossible to separate.

Here in Hamburg, Germany, is a guy, who builds mic clamps with a 3D-printer, very usefull, not expensive.

I told him my problems and he builds a clamp matching two SM58 vertical or horizontal parallel in line (or a SM58 and a SM57, very similar, but smaller).

I want to try to record both mics. There are VST plugins, which allow phase shifting from 0 to 180 degree. With this plugin and the gain control I want to compensate/lower all sounds except the vocals (they are singing only in one of the mics). The Greatful Dead technic, but better adjustable.

What are you thinking, may it work? Its for rehearsal recording, not for a studio!

So long

Christian
 
#146
cfortner said:
Six month old thread, but I'll jump in.

We make recordings in our rehearsal room every day we play and got a lot of good takes (Cubase 11.5) - except the voice. Thoe vocal mics are full of drums, how described here.

We are playing with inear, guitars 1. with Bluetone and DI, 2. silent cab with 12" and two mics inside, Bass DI of Mesa WD800, Keyboards stereo DI.

It is nearly a silent stage - but the drums are too loud in the vocal mics. The singer (female/male) are singing loud enough, anyway it is nearly impossible to seperate the voice from drum. If I gate the vocals, in the gated moments the sound is very good, but when vocals are opening the gate, you hear a mixture of a good loud voice and good loud drums... Impossible to separate.

Here in Hamburg, Germany, is a guy, who builds mic clamps with a 3D-printer, very usefull, not expensive.

I told him my problems and he builds a clamp matching two SM58 vertical or horizontal parallel in line (or a SM58 and a SM57, very similar, but smaller).

I want to try to record both mics. There are VST plugins, which allow phase shifting from 0 to 180 degree. With this plugin and the gain control I want to compensate/lower all sounds except the vocals (they are singing only in one of the mics). The Greatful Dead technic, but better adjustable.

What are you thinking, may it work? Its for rehearsal recording, not for a studio!

So long

Christian
Click to expand...


I believe the Grateful Dead use this or a similar technique with the wall of sound.

2569972943_854bc76526.jpg


Not sure how effective it will be with the hash from cymbals. Optimum cancellation occurs when the sound source is equidistant from both mic capsules. Also I believe it works better when the wavelength of the sound is significantly longer than the spacing between the capsules.

In my experience SM58 are pretty awful on stage because they pick up so much hash from the cymbals. Part of the problem is the wide pickup pattern and frequency response, which includes a bump in the high mids.

I also believe the way some vocalists like the work this mic makes the problem even worse. For best rejection, vocalists lips should be on or within a few inches of their mic's grill. A lot of vocalists will because of 12" or more with this mic.

With more directional mics like a Beta 58, you have to sing closer to the capsule and cannot work it like an SM58.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cfortner
#147
The Greatful Dead did the polarity / phase flip right at the mics.
I remember reading something that noted they used some high end measurement mics
so the mic pairs were as close to matched as possible..... maybe B&K's?

I've always wanted to try that just for the sake of it!

Crown made a vocal mic called the "differoid" CM310 that more or less did the same thing with in the mic capsule, same basic mic capsule that went into the the CM311 headset mic.
The CM310 was discontinued, the CM311 is now an AKG product.
Yes you need to right on top of both of those mics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wasnex
#149
dirtychinchilla said:
...and we play tiny stages (corners of pubs)
Click to expand...
EVERYTHING (but the vocals) has to go down,

this is NOT the scenario for an acoustic drumer doing the bam bam thing (and of course the others can just turn down).

Different sticks and/or different heads, or an E-kit or something.

I hate to say it, but SERIOUS pressure needs to be put on the drummer to do something.

If you're gigging regularly, it's just not that hard to find a replacement,

I'd literally threaten him.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dirtychinchilla and tshapiro
#150
Marko 1 said:
EVERYTHING (but the vocals) has to go down,

this is NOT the scenario for an acoustic drumer doing the bam bam thing (and of course the others can just turn down).

Different sticks and/or different heads, or an E-kit or something.

I hate to say it, but SERIOUS pressure needs to be put on the drummer to do something.

If you're gigging regularly, it's just not that hard to find a replacement,

I'd literally threaten him.
Click to expand...

Our drummer is a good guy, so it's all cool. We haven't gigged them in a small venue yet (last gig was a big one and it was awesome!), but he bought some mutes for the cymbals which should quieten things down dramatically.

We also fired our sound guy, and that has changed things for the best. We simplified the set up, pushed the singer to use IEMs, and don't constantly fiddle with the levels, which this previous idiot was doing. Unfortunately, he's the singer's husband so he still attends every gig, but he isn't doing the sound.
 
#152
dirtychinchilla said:
We're struggling on stage with various sound issues due to an imcompetent sound man, but hope to pay our way out of at least a couple of them. I've noticed a huge amount of drums bleeding into our singer's vocal mic. She's sings quite quietly, and we play tiny stages (corners of pubs), doing MTV hits, so we're pretty loud despite her quiet vocals. Therefore, she's bosoted up a lot and up go the drums.
Click to expand...

dirtychinchilla said:
Moving her away from the drums isn't really an option. These stages are often small enough that I bang my elbow on his ride cymbal! And as you say, visuals aren't great.
Click to expand...

dirtychinchilla said:
We haven't gigged them in a small venue yet (last gig was a big one and it was awesome!),
Click to expand...
:whistle:
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back