Drums bleeding into vocal mic live...

[dirtychinchilla]

Afternoon all,

We're struggling on stage with various sound issues due to an imcompetent sound man, but hope to pay our way out of at least a couple of them. I've noticed a huge amount of drums bleeding into our singer's vocal mic. She's sings quite quietly, and we play tiny stages (corners of pubs), doing MTV hits, so we're pretty loud despite her quiet vocals. Therefore, she's bosoted up a lot and up go the drums.

She uses an SM58, but I'm wondering whether a better or at least more appropriate mic would make a difference. Someone recommend the Shure 58A Beta to me, which has a super cardiod pattern and a hotter output. Could we also EQ out some of the drums?

Advice would be greatly appreciated (PS. can't fire the sound man right now, though are extremely keen to).

Cheers!

 

[arbiterusa]

She uses an SM58, but I'm wondering whether a better or at least more appropriate mic would make a difference. Someone recommend the Shure 58A Beta to me, which has a super cardiod pattern and a hotter output. Could we also EQ out some of the drums?

The only thing that will help is for your singer to sing louder. A bigger stage would also help somewhat.

And no, EQing the drums out will definitely not help anything. Vocal frequencies are the same as the worst offender, which is the snare.

This is not your soundman's fault.

 

[bassdeal]

Afternoon all,

We're struggling on stage with various sound issues due to an imcompetent sound man, but hope to pay our way out of at least a couple of them. I've noticed a huge amount of drums bleeding into our singer's vocal mic. She's sings quite quietly, and we play tiny stages (corners of pubs), doing MTV hits, so we're pretty loud despite her quiet vocals. Therefore, she's bosoted up a lot and up go the drums.

She uses an SM58, but I'm wondering whether a better or at least more appropriate mic would make a difference. Someone recommend the Shure 58A Beta to me, which has a super cardiod pattern and a hotter output. Could we also EQ out some of the drums?

Advice would be greatly appreciated (PS. can't fire the sound man right now, though are extremely keen to).

Cheers!

Loud band with a soft-singing vocalist in a tight space with a loud drummer is a touch situation.

Before putting money into the issue, which to me seems will not make much of a difference, there are two things I can think of.

One and best, can the drummer play with less volume? Lighter sticks? Some muting techniques?

Two is to move your vocalist away from the drums as much as possible and angle her mic go get a much of the side of the mic toward the drums. I am not sure if this is acceptable visually, but I would give it a try.

Are there any other mics in use? If so, try the above or think how you can eliminate them on small stages.

I am not an expert, but I do play on some very tight spaces with a trio. For us, drummer disciple is the key for this type of problem.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The only thing that will help is for your singer to sing louder. A bigger stage would also help somewhat.

And no, EQing the drums out will definitely not help anything. Vocal frequencies are the same as the worst offender, which is the snare.

This is not your soundman's fault.

Thank you for that. I had no idea that the snare had similar frequencies. I get a lot of cymbals in my in ears from her mic.

We can't change the stages unfortunately do you think a different mic would actually help? She's unlikely to sing louder.

 

[arbiterusa]

do you think a different mic would actually help?

A different mic will not make one bit of difference.

Quiet singers usually don't make it in loud bands and you're discovering why.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Loud band with a soft-singing vocalist in a tight space with a loud drummer is a touch situation.

Before putting money into the issue, which to me seems will not make much of a difference, there are two things I can think of.

One and best, can the drummer play with less volume? Lighter sticks? Some muting techniques?

Two is to move your vocalist away from the drums as much as possible and angle her mic go get a much of the side of the mic toward the drums. I am not sure if this is acceptable visually, but I would give it a try.

Are there any other mics in use? If so, try the above or think how you can eliminate them on small stages.

I am not an expert, but I do play on some very tight spaces with a trio. For us, drummer disciple is the key for this type of problem.

Thanks very much for your suggestions. We are trying to eliminate mics. I run a DI, and the guitarist has just switched over to one, so no micced cabs. I have a mic for backing vocals, which is off on songs without BV. So we typically only have two or three mics on stage.

Moving her away from the drums isn't really an option. These stages are often small enough that I bang my elbow on his ride cymbal! And as you say, visuals aren't great.

I'll speka to the drummer about lighter sticks. He is a key part of the issue, but I don't think he's all of it. It's a rock gig after all, don't want him too quiet and he's not the kind of drummer anyone would want to fire.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

A different mic will not make one bit of difference.

Quiet singers usually don't make it in loud bands and you're discovering why.

OK. My thinking was that if the mic had a different pattern, it would pick up fewer drums. I am not an expert by any means though.

Yeah...we did get her a preamp pedal thing, but it just amplifies the drums.

 

[AGCurry]

There isn't a truly good fix for a singer who doesn't move enough air.

One thing I could suggest is to have her oriented so that the drums are in the "null" of the mic's pickup pattern.

Something like the Audix OM5, which is designed for very close miking, might be a better choice than SM58.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

There isn't a truly good fix for a singer who doesn't move enough air.

One thing I could suggest is to have her oriented so that the drums are the "null" of the mic's pickup pattern.

Something like the Audix OM5, which is designed for very close miking, might be a better choice than SM58.

Thanks. That's the sort of thing I was wondering about to improve a mediocre situation without too much trouble.

 

[Zooberwerx]

OK. My thinking was that if the mic had a different pattern, it would pick up fewer drums. I am not an expert by any means though.

Yeah...we did get her a preamp pedal thing, but it just amplifies the drums.

I was thinking the same. I do some sound but mic types and characteristics are not my realm of expertise.

Riis

 

[AGCurry]

Or perhaps you could look into a headworn mic.

 

[InhumanResource]

Thank you for that. I had no idea that the snare had similar frequencies. I get a lot of cymbals in my in ears from her mic.

We can't change the stages unfortunately do you think a different mic would actually help? She's unlikely to sing louder.

The issue is volume disparity…she can either be louder or the band can lower their stage volume. I don’t think any hardware will solve this, unfortunately.

 

[Joeywhat]

A different mic will help, but not rectify the issue. As said earlier, something designed to be close miked will likely be your best bet, and pick a pickup pattern that puts the null right where the drums are... Cardioid for directly behind, or super/hyper cardioid for rear and to the side.

If the stage is tight, and if there's walls nearby you won't get very far without turning her mic down.

 

[Barticus]

Have you tried a plexi shield in front of the drummer to muffle from the mic a bit?

 

[D.A.R.K.]

You could try a supercadiod mic, like an Audix OM7, but those actually require even greater proximity technique. Honestly, as a 40 year vet in live sound, this is common. It can be cured by vocal lessons and learning how to project properly for the situation. Band needs to meet half way, under the same rules of engagement and play appropriately. Technology can't fix this for you.

 

[Speakz]

Another option depending on space is to get some acrylic baffles. There is a pic in the link below as to what they look like. You might only need one or two between your singer and drummer. It could be worth a try if you have a spare cymbal stand or two.

Invalid Link Removed

 

[rogerb]

Electronic drums.

 

[drpepper]

If you decide to try another mic (which seems arguably worth giving a shot), I'll add another nod to the OM7 and repeat that another mic is likely going to require at least some attention to technique.

I have OM2, OM5 (probably most in line with Beta) and OM7 mics. A keyboard player I play with in a couple of projects, who is not at all a loud singer, liked using the OM7 so much that he showed up at a gig having bought one for himself. So, that's a possible data point on it working for a "quiet" singer.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Look into an optogate. Mutes the mic when your face isn’t in singing position.

Not the best solution, but my band uses them and they help us a ton.

 

[g-dude]

Or perhaps you could look into a headworn mic.

I was just going to say this. You don't have to get the giant foam piece that makes you look like 1990s Garth Brooks either.