In small pubs/corner stages, it doesn't really matter what mic she's got--the drums are going to bleed in. The only choice is to raise the volume of the instrument itself, i.e. she has to sing louder (which may not be possible) or to lower the volume of the drums (which also may not be possible). Best of luck.
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Drums bleeding into vocal mic live...
- Thread starter dirtychinchilla
- Start date
Drum machine!
‘yer gonna want to fire the drummer anyway… why not for “cause”.
‘yer gonna want to fire the drummer anyway… why not for “cause”.
You could form another, more suitable, band for the singer, and find another voice to better suit the drummer. Two bands. Twice the gigs. Twice the fun. Double the music. You can't lose.
There are several mics on the market which have high-gain before feedback. They typically have a narrow pickup field. They work well if the singer has good mic technique. It means she will have to be right on the mic to get anything out of it. This also means keeping the mic close to her mouth when singing. I recommend about 3" from the her lips for best performance without severe proximity effect. Also, don't grip the mic at the ball end. It defeats the feedback control features of the mic. It should be gripped at the shaft. When not singing, she should keep the mic close to her body. She should position herself so she is between the mic and the drums. This will reduce any direct audio signal from the drums hitting the mic. You still have to deal with reflected audio. That is much harder. But these techniques should help.
IMO: SM58s were a good mic choice 30 yrs ago. There are so many better mics on the market today. Try a Heil PR35. I think these work really well on female vocals.
IMO: SM58s were a good mic choice 30 yrs ago. There are so many better mics on the market today. Try a Heil PR35. I think these work really well on female vocals.
@dirtychinchilla
I tried to read through as much of this thread as possible and @SLO Surfer's post appears to be the only one that mentions, gating, but I didn't see where which and how your mixer is being used came up.
I see from a previous post that you're using an XR18? Have you done anything as far as setting up/adjusting gates on your mics?
If not and if it's not something that you're versed on, that'd probably also be recommendable to look into as functionality that you already have but potentially aren't taking advantage of. I'd say google and/or manual search for your mixer.
I looked on youtube and this was one of the first things to pop up...personally, I couldn't sit through too much of that video because of delivery style, but it could be information that'd be of help to you
I tried to read through as much of this thread as possible and @SLO Surfer's post appears to be the only one that mentions, gating, but I didn't see where which and how your mixer is being used came up.
I see from a previous post that you're using an XR18? Have you done anything as far as setting up/adjusting gates on your mics?
If not and if it's not something that you're versed on, that'd probably also be recommendable to look into as functionality that you already have but potentially aren't taking advantage of. I'd say google and/or manual search for your mixer.
I looked on youtube and this was one of the first things to pop up...personally, I couldn't sit through too much of that video because of delivery style, but it could be information that'd be of help to you
Mic technique is the next best solution after singing louder. A lot of vocalists think that they sound better with some distance between themselves and the mic. This is usually true, especially if you're not up against a dense mix, but tons of rock vocalists swallow the mic, and now you know why. If she's not right up on the mic, she should be. If she doesn't want to do that, she needs to sing louder.
Really, playing rock n' roll is all about getting yourself heard, so absent a couple of technical suggestions and a touch of knob twiddling, it's really your singer's responsibility to make herself a competent rock singer by finding a way to project. I would say that proximity to the mic is a big deal and can really help. But really, if you're not being heard and you're not doing what it takes to get heard, there's not much anyone else can do for you.
Really, playing rock n' roll is all about getting yourself heard, so absent a couple of technical suggestions and a touch of knob twiddling, it's really your singer's responsibility to make herself a competent rock singer by finding a way to project. I would say that proximity to the mic is a big deal and can really help. But really, if you're not being heard and you're not doing what it takes to get heard, there's not much anyone else can do for you.
Or she can sing closer to the mic. Thus, gain is not so high.
I've asked a similar question last year, and the typical answer I received was the e935 was better at rejecting nearby sounds.
I've asked a similar question last year, and the typical answer I received was the e935 was better at rejecting nearby sounds.
Gating will only close when the signal falls below a set threshold. From the sounds of it, the drums are the only thing on that stage exceeding that threshold that would open any gate on that mic channel.
Using a audio gate as on the vocal may be losing battle. To gate out the drums you would most likely need the threshold set so high that with her vocal "style" it would not open the gate. If you do experiment with a gate set the closed attenuation to only around 10db or so with generous hold and release time, that will soften the gating effect.
Some post back an optical gate was mentioned, those detect when someone is standing at the mic, I've worked with a couple bands who used them and they do work.
Home - Optogate Online
Like has been said here in almost every post, in the end this is really not a hardware equipment issue fix ( short of E drums and everyone on IEM's) but a performer issue. Once you take care of that hardware changes/upgrades will be the icing on the cake.
Last thought, maybe I missed this but what kind of monitor is she using and how loud is she in that mix? Maybe she's hearing herself and thinking I'm too loud and backs off.
Some post back an optical gate was mentioned, those detect when someone is standing at the mic, I've worked with a couple bands who used them and they do work.
Home - Optogate Online
Like has been said here in almost every post, in the end this is really not a hardware equipment issue fix ( short of E drums and everyone on IEM's) but a performer issue. Once you take care of that hardware changes/upgrades will be the icing on the cake.
Last thought, maybe I missed this but what kind of monitor is she using and how loud is she in that mix? Maybe she's hearing herself and thinking I'm too loud and backs off.
Would gating help in this situation? I am skeptical because my experiences using gates in the studio with quiet singers have not been great. With a quiet singer, your threshold has to be so low that the gate cuts in and out in response to all sorts of other random background noises and you won't get good ambience (i.e. the gate kicks in while the singer is in mid breath, or while she's trailing off with vibrato, etc.) But it would be worth a try.
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I didn't say it would be the solution. I don't know exactly how quietly this singer's voice is. I said "If not and if it's not something that you're versed on, that'd probably also be recommendable to look into as functionality that you already have but potentially aren't taking advantage of. I'd say google and/or manual search for your mixer."
It's something that the op has with no financial cost to try.
True. But teaching the singer good mic technique is, to my mind, a more effective (and a more portable) solution than relying on tech to do her job for her.
IMO a singer without mic technique has little business on a stage with pro musicians. Learn that stuff in karaoke and get paid for this when you know how to do the job.
gregbackstrom
These aren't stock curves--things move around!
Another nod to the Audix OM7. It’s the mic I use in my grumpy old guy band to avoid feedback and reduce bleeding from the guitar and keys. Everyone’s points about vocal training and volume constraint are certainly valid here, and will do more to resolve this problem.
