Dua Lipa "Levitating" infringement lawsuit

[smtp4me]

No, dude. If that was the case, then we'd only have a handful of melodies, and they couldn't be copyrighted.



And yet, it rarely happens, despite people writing hundreds of thousands of new songs every year. Hmmmmm



Yeah, that's.... how the US legal system and juries work.

Aside from the fact that US juries are based on the principle of a "jury of peers," the reality is that it would be impossible for every case to select a jury with relevant expertise. If someone gets arrested for a cryptocurrency rug-pull, does that mean every member of the jury should be CPAs that specialize in crypto? No. It's the job of the prosecution and defense to make their case in a way the jury can understand.

It rarely happens? Levitating is written in B minor, and uses a 1, 4, 5 chord progression. This series of chords is as common in music as the phrase "good morning" is in English. And if we are going down this slippery slope, why not determine the first composer to use 1/4/5 and sue every artist throughout written and recorded music history who has used it, then give the proceeds to the descendants of that first composer.

Similar rhythms, even identical rhythms, are used with the same frequency and commonality. For an artist to claim "I wrote a song with three chords: B, F#, and E, and with dotted quarter and eighth note rhythms in 4/4 time, therefore no one else can, ever." is nonsensical.

Respectfully, we will not agree on this.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Respectfully, we will not agree on this.

You're disagreeing on something that wasn't even adressed. You're talking chord structure, he's talking melody.

 

[turf3]

It's my understanding you can't copyright chord structures; that's why a lot of play-along records will indicate something like "All the Things You Are and songs with similar harmonic formulae".

 

[smtp4me]

You're disagreeing on something that wasn't even adressed. You're talking chord structure, he's talking melody.

I've made multiple posts on the topic. The original one he quoted included comments about melody, they did not appear because I quoted his quote of my comment.

 

[sunbeast]

I think one of the most toe curlingy awkward, and embarrassing things I've seem in recent years, is Dua Lipa's episode of "Song Exploder" on Netflix.

The whole series (and also the podcast) is terrific, and inspiring.

With artists as varied as Lin-Manuel Miranda, and Nine Inch Nails taking a deep dive into their writing, and creative process, and several episodes featuring Flood & Alan Moulder showing exactly what real record producers do.

And then we come to Dua Lipa's episode, where a large team of writers try to negotiate their way around exactly what it is they all do, or what this half baked, paper-thin idea by committee means on a personal level.

Meanwhile, poor old Dua is reduced to politely smiling, and offering niceties about the whole experience, before the episode has to deal with the elephant in the room, that is the sample the song is based around. And now the whole thing gets derailed having to acknowledge that they've basically copied the whole idea from "Your Woman" by White Town, which itself is based around an obscure sample from a 1930's recording.

At this point, the viewer (and apparently the participants) would rather the episode were actually about "Your Woman" by White Town, because it's a vastly more interesting, and inspiring personal story about an Indian kid recording a track on consumer gear, in his bedroom, sending it in to a Sunday morning radio slot, and it getting picked up by the national station, put into rotation, and becoming a smash hit.

Dua is a legit superstar, and a terrific performer, but she really needs to develop as a songwriter in her own right.

I think that episode and stories like this go hand in hand to show the dire straits that the music “industry” is in at this point. There aren’t the same piles of cash being moved around for music making these days the way there was in Flood’s heyday, or Trent Reznor’s heyday (not to mention the 60’s and 70’s). These days most songwriters are trying to pop out as much quantity as quick as possible in the hope that one or two of the ideas hits a little $$ (but sales from one single are unlikely to be able to float anyone comfortably for long the same way they could in the past). People that spend long periods of time crafting music for passion are likely to see little relative rewards for it in the current economic model- the money just isn’t there anymore unless they are lucky enough to have already established themselves before the current model began (people like Reznor or Pharrell, etc who can garner larger payouts). That’s why pop stars have these “committees” of writers/producers- because a handful of OK ideas can be pasted together into a catchy song quickly without too much work extended by any individual, then onto the next one. It means you also have a bunch of people out there in the world looking for quick catchy ideas all the time, which makes the likelihood of musical plagiarism far more likely- some producer hears an ear-worm of something catchy out in the world and brings a diluted version of that idea into one of these meetings that eventually gets developed up into what it started as again with only minor changes and pasted together with the similarly shallow ideas of a handful of other writers/producers. It’s why nearly everything happening in pop music today sounds familiar IMO

 

[friskinator]

I think that episode and stories like this go hand in hand to show the dire straits that the music “industry” is in at this point. There aren’t the same piles of cash being moved around for music making these days the way there was in Flood’s heyday, or Trent Reznor’s heyday (not to mention the 60’s and 70’s). These days most songwriters are trying to pop out as much quantity as quick as possible in the hope that one or two of the ideas hits a little $$ (but sales from one single are unlikely to be able to float anyone comfortably for long the same way they could in the past). People that spend long periods of time crafting music for passion are likely to see little relative rewards for it in the current economic model- the money just isn’t there anymore unless they are lucky enough to have already established themselves before the current model began (people like Reznor or Pharrell, etc who can garner larger payouts). That’s why pop stars have these “committees” of writers/producers- because a handful of OK ideas can be pasted together into a catchy song quickly without too much work extended by any individual, then onto the next one. It means you also have a bunch of people out there in the world looking for quick catchy ideas all the time, which makes the likelihood of musical plagiarism far more likely- some producer hears an ear-worm of something catchy out in the world and brings a diluted version of that idea into one of these meetings that eventually gets developed up into what it started as again with only minor changes and pasted together with the similarly shallow ideas of a handful of other writers/producers. It’s why nearly everything happening in pop music today sounds familiar IMO

Well said. Doing it the "old way" doesn't yield the rewards that it used to. Like it or not, it's how it is.

 

[turf3]

Well, what that all means to me is that the gap between actual music and "background sound product" is getting wider day by day.

Compare $20/lb Stilton from a four-person farm dairy and sold in the small cheese shop, versus Velveeta "processed cheese food product" that you can buy 20 lbs at a whack from Costco.

The important thing, to me, is not to confuse one for the other.

 

[Wood and Wire]

I think that episode and stories like this go hand in hand to show the dire straits that the music “industry” is in at this point. There aren’t the same piles of cash being moved around for music making these days the way there was in Flood’s heyday, or Trent Reznor’s heyday (not to mention the 60’s and 70’s). These days most songwriters are trying to pop out as much quantity as quick as possible in the hope that one or two of the ideas hits a little $$ (but sales from one single are unlikely to be able to float anyone comfortably for long the same way they could in the past). People that spend long periods of time crafting music for passion are likely to see little relative rewards for it in the current economic model- the money just isn’t there anymore unless they are lucky enough to have already established themselves before the current model began (people like Reznor or Pharrell, etc who can garner larger payouts). That’s why pop stars have these “committees” of writers/producers- because a handful of OK ideas can be pasted together into a catchy song quickly without too much work extended by any individual, then onto the next one. It means you also have a bunch of people out there in the world looking for quick catchy ideas all the time, which makes the likelihood of musical plagiarism far more likely- some producer hears an ear-worm of something catchy out in the world and brings a diluted version of that idea into one of these meetings that eventually gets developed up into what it started as again with only minor changes and pasted together with the similarly shallow ideas of a handful of other writers/producers. It’s why nearly everything happening in pop music today sounds familiar IMO

True, but there's even less money when it has to be divvied up between a committee of credited songwriters. And further diluted by the use of a sample, or recognisable reference that adds the credited writers of that original creative work, to the growing list of credited writers for the new one.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Well, what that all means to me is that the gap between actual music and "background sound product" is getting wider day by day.

Compare $20/lb Stilton from a four-person farm dairy and sold in the small cheese shop, versus Velveeta "processed cheese food product" that you can buy 20 lbs at a whack from Costco.

The important thing, to me, is not to confuse one for the other.

The important thing to you should be gout.

 

[Shepsdad]

Hopefully these guys have their song on the streaming services, with all the attention they’re getting, they’ll probably make 3 maybe 4 cents.

 

[sunbeast]

True, but there's even less money when it has to be divvied up between a committee of credited songwriters. And further diluted by the use of a sample, or recognisable reference that adds the credited writers of that original creative work, to the growing list of credited writers for the new one.

A single “songwriter” without much particular inspiration can’t be nearly as productive in a short time as 3 or more of them working together. I know some people in Los Angeles that make a (admittedly relatively meager by past standards) living off this stuff. I honestly suspect AI technology will be a big (and likely uncredited) part of pop music in the future just because of the economics of things.

 

[Nuage420]

So I tossed both tracks on the old home stereo and gave em a good listen...

Taking into consideration everyone's input and having learned some stuff in the process, I'm not as sure as I was initially that they lifted this song.

 

[Nuage420]

I honestly suspect AI technology will be a big (and likely uncredited) part of pop music in the future just because of the economics of things.

Robot killed the radio star...

 

[sunbeast]

Well, what that all means to me is that the gap between actual music and "background sound product" is getting wider day by day.

Compare $20/lb Stilton from a four-person farm dairy and sold in the small cheese shop, versus Velveeta "processed cheese food product" that you can buy 20 lbs at a whack from Costco.

The important thing, to me, is not to confuse one for the other.

Sometimes “fast-music” just like fast-food suits the moment. And both kinds of music influence each-other because of the shared human element. Consider Motown Records was built as a “hit-factory”- essentially one of the prototypes of what we have now, with songwriting teams and studio musicians on hand in the studio 24/7 to pop out hit songs as quickly as possible. A lot of the specifics have evolved but the basic idea is the same. And despite that, Motown music influenced most music (“actual” and “background product”) that came after it. We can compare and contrast them qualitatively, but ultimately taste is always subjective.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Well, what that all means to me is that the gap between actual music and "background sound product" is getting wider day by day.

Compare $20/lb Stilton from a four-person farm dairy and sold in the small cheese shop, versus Velveeta "processed cheese food product" that you can buy 20 lbs at a whack from Costco.

The important thing, to me, is not to confuse one for the other.

When you're lactose intolerant but you like cheese...

 

[DJ Bebop]

I think that episode and stories like this go hand in hand to show the dire straits that the music “industry” is in at this point. There aren’t the same piles of cash being moved around for music making these days the way there was in Flood’s heyday, or Trent Reznor’s heyday (not to mention the 60’s and 70’s). These days most songwriters are trying to pop out as much quantity as quick as possible in the hope that one or two of the ideas hits a little $$ (but sales from one single are unlikely to be able to float anyone comfortably for long the same way they could in the past). People that spend long periods of time crafting music for passion are likely to see little relative rewards for it in the current economic model- the money just isn’t there anymore unless they are lucky enough to have already established themselves before the current model began (people like Reznor or Pharrell, etc who can garner larger payouts). That’s why pop stars have these “committees” of writers/producers- because a handful of OK ideas can be pasted together into a catchy song quickly without too much work extended by any individual, then onto the next one. It means you also have a bunch of people out there in the world looking for quick catchy ideas all the time, which makes the likelihood of musical plagiarism far more likely- some producer hears an ear-worm of something catchy out in the world and brings a diluted version of that idea into one of these meetings that eventually gets developed up into what it started as again with only minor changes and pasted together with the similarly shallow ideas of a handful of other writers/producers. It’s why nearly everything happening in pop music today sounds familiar IMO

 

[Jantelagen]

Listened to both clips. I’m not familiar with the Dua Lipa song so upon first listen it was too close to call. I honestly thought I was hearing different versions of the same song. Wouldn’t be shocked if the outcome goes in the band’s favor

 

[ClusterFlux]

It rarely happens?

Yup.

Again, massive numbers of songs are written every year. Even if we were looking exclusively at songs that reach the Billboard 100, only a small fraction get sued for copyright infringement.

Levitating is written in B minor, and uses a 1, 4, 5 chord progression...

Sigh

Common chord progressions on their own are very difficult to claim copyright. When you combine chord progressions, rhythms, and melodies, you might have a lawsuit on your hands.

If you listen to both tracks and don't realize how close the Lipa version is to the Artikal version, then yeah, we're not going to agree... If you missed the previous post with this in it, here's the version uploaded to Soundcloud 4 years ago:

 

[ClusterFlux]

So I tossed both tracks on the old home stereo and gave em a good listen...

Taking into consideration everyone's input and having learned some stuff in the process, I'm not as sure as I was initially that they lifted this song.

I'm sure they did. Chords, rhythm, and the chorus melody are pretty much the same. Scouring the Internet for grooves is basically what producers do nowadays.

Check out the Soundcloud version (linked above), it's more comprehensive than other versions posted in this thread and in the media.

That doesn't necessarily mean Artikal would win a lawsuit; e.g. they could have a solid case but sucky attorneys. But yeah, I'm sure that one of the producers heard the Artikal track at some point.

 

[ClusterFlux]

I honestly suspect AI technology will be a big (and likely uncredited) part of pop music in the future just because of the economics of things.

Ever check out Captain Chords? You pick out the chord progressions and voicings you want; set the rhythm; and you're done.

That said, it seems pretty clear that chord progressions don't matter much when writing a song now, which is why so new songs basically reuse the same handful of progressions over and over. Producers focus mostly on rhythm, sound design, timbre, and tweaking Autotune....