Eb Major scale starting on G?

[Spin Doctor]

So, to clarify what is turning into a silly argument. There are 3 types of minors.

1. The natural minor has (in comparison to the Ionian mode) a flat 3, a flat 6 and a flat 7.

2. The harmonic minor has a flat 3, a flat 6 and a leading tone.

3. The ascending melodic minor (the least common) has a flat 3 while the descending melodic minor has a flat 3, a flat 6 and a flat 7.

All of these are based entirely on the Aeolian mode.

Since I'm stupid and can't resist...

Using your above example, why does the Dorian minor not have a flat 3, a natural 6 and a flat 7th? Based on Aeolian, of course.

Or do you just arbitrarily decide what gets called minor or not?

Note to self:
*I'll bet this is gonna be good...*

 

[Mark Ambler]

Dorian does have a flat 3rd.

Is there another Dorian I don't know about?

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Any decent chordplayer would avoid to add the b9 as a chord tone when he/she plays a minor 7th chord

As a beginner and "indecent" player, I decided to add that b9 in the chord.
And here is why.
Your Gmin7b9 chord is Bb7/G in the bass.
During my lunchtime, with the help of GP on my iphone, I've concocted some lame "easy-music" riff.
The right hand on the piano plays just Bb7 chord while the bass is roaming. When the bass gets on the G note with that Bb7 in the piano right hand, we have that forbidden "fruit" - Gmin7b9.
(P.S. Nothing is forbidden for aging and "indecent", and stubborn WUTP).

Here is the sheet with it.

Here is a sound clip with that Bb7/G from GP.

https://www.talkbass.com/attachment...9/?temp_hash=9ea49aba8ef243675c8d19d5d0006f54

 

[Cowboy in Latvia]

The level of fail continues to rise. I believe I'll take my own advice and not continue pointless arguments.

View attachment 2991812

 

[Spin Doctor]

The level of fail continues to rise. I believe I'll take my own advice and not continue pointless arguments.

View attachment 2991812

So your weak meme is your answer to being wrong? lol... No defense? No enlightenment?

"The modern Dorian mode is equivalent to the natural minor scale (or the Aeolian mode) but with a major sixth. The modern Dorian mode resembles the Greek Phrygian harmonia in the diatonic genus."

Or in your mind, you can just re-write accepted western music theory... Let's talk about fail, shall we? Like I said before. Complete ********...

 

[MichelD]

This has been fun since I posted the question.

120 responses. Wow!

I should start one asking what to do with a Bmb5 chord.

My songwriter buddy uses that chord and the the C#mb5 chord a lot too and I'm wondering how to do different things with them.

 

[Mark Ambler]

Let's atleast end the pain and get a definitive answer.

Putting it very basically, I'm playing a minor blues and using a Dmin7 (Dorian mode) and you're telling me I'm not playing a minor scale?

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

As a beginner and "indecent" player, I decided to add that b9 in the chord.
And here is why.
Your Gmin7b9 chord is Bb7/G in the bass.
During my lunchtime, with the help of GP on my iphone, I've concocted some lame "easy-music" riff.
The right hand on the piano plays just Bb7 chord while the bass is roaming. When the bass gets on the G note with that Bb7 in the piano right hand, we have that forbidden "fruit" - Gmin7b9.
(P.S. Nothing is forbidden for aging and "indecent", and stubborn WUTP).

Yes. As stated earlier: Another possible exception is a Bb13 with a bassline moving scalewise down from Bb to Eb (Bb, Ab, G, F), but then it's clear that it's really a Bb13 moving to Eb (or something similar). The tonality is still major (Bb), not minor (Gm).

 

[Mark Ambler]

This has been fun since I posted the question.

120 responses. Wow!

I should start one asking what to do with a Bmb5 chord.

My songwriter buddy uses that chord and the the C#mb5 chord a lot too and I'm wondering how to do different things with them.

I think we should discuss all the modes of the whole tone scale.

 

[SLO Surfer]

And now we confuse modes and keys again.

Nope. G Phrygian is the answer to the OP. Not confused at all. Accept for being told that

the most common minor has a flat 6 and a leading tone...I'm talking about the harmonic minor scale here.

Maybe harmonic minor is the most common minor scale used in Latvia or in Django Reinhardt style gypsy jazz, I could see that. But in the western music I've studied, Aeolian and Dorian are by far the most common minor scales.

But, G Phrygian.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I think we should discuss all the modes of the whole tone scale.

OK now you're just being mean... Or masochistic.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Nope. G Phrygian is the answer to the OP. Not confused at all. Accept for being told that
Maybe harmonic minor is the most common minor scale used in Latvia or in Django Reinhardt style gypsy jazz, I could see that. But in the western music I've studied, Aeolian and Dorian are by far the most common minor scales.

But, G Phrygian.

Yeah, I know "some" jazz tunes are written with harmonic minor in mind, like "Softly as in a Morning Sunrise", and you can throw it into nearly any jazz tune, if you know how, but it's far and I mean VERY far from being the most common minor scale. In modern western music anyway.... As an aside, I find the weirdness of talkbass very entertaining in a trainwreck kinda way...

But as you mentioned, the mode the OP is looking at is G Phrygian.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Yes. As stated earlier: Another possible exception is a Bb13 with a bassline moving scalewise down from Bb to Eb (Bb, Ab, G, F), but then it's clear that it's really a Bb13 moving to Eb (or something similar). The tonality is still major (Bb), not minor (Gm).

The question was about Eb major scale or Es-dur starting on G, but...
Your statement was about just a chord - Gmin7b9 without ANY other stipulations, but...
I would mean NOTHING to stubborn me to make the tonality in Gmin.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

The question was about Eb major scale or Es-dur starting on G, but...
Your statement was about just a chord - Gmin7b9 without ANY other stipulations, but...
I would mean NOTHING to stubborn me to make the tonality in Gmin.

I have no idea about what you are trying to say here.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I have no idea about what you are trying to say here.

Did you say that there is no Gmin7b9 chord?

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

Did you say that there is no Gmin7b9 chord?

I think you can read everything I have said about m7b9 chords in this thread, if you want to.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

I think you can read everything I have said about m7b9 chords in this thread, if you want to.

This is what you've said.

Any decent chordplayer would avoid to add the b9 as a chord tone when he/she plays a minor 7th chord (here: avoid the Ab as a chord tone when he/she plays a Gmi7 in Eb) (and in all common situations

I think I've spent enough time and PROVED to ALL TB members that an "indecent" chord player COULD play that chord.
Everything else - it's just a foam on the Baltic Sea after the storm.

 

[IamGroot]

 

[IamGroot]

This is awesome! TB gets more bizarre by the day... Most of it is complete ********. On a Galactic level. Please ban me now so I won't be tempted to come back. I can't take it anymore.

Yes, Indeed.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

I think I've spent enough time and PROVED to ALL TB members that an "indecent" chord player COULD play that chord.

Yes, an indecent chord player could put both his arms, and his legs on the keyboard and press all keys available. Of course you can make up a name for that chord too. Your choice.