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Eb tuning songs

#42
If OP's band is playing a whole set in Eb? I say de-tune a half step across the whole instrument.
If this is just a couple songs in the set maybe a drop D will give him what he needs?
That being said just dealing with the key and the notes/range/position that it allows is just as valid but takes a little more knowledge of the instrument...good luck and keep searching.
 
#46
ics1974 said:
I am a bedroom bass player (4 string bass only) and just like to learn songs and jam to mp3's. My question is regarding songs in Eb tuning.
What does everyone do when a song is tuned to Eb?
-Have a guitar dedicated just for Eb tuning
-Tune your guitar to Eb for that song then tune it back to regular tuning after
-Use software to change the pitch back to regular E tuning
-something else?
Click to expand...

It’s an easier key for horns, a little easier on the vocals. I don't know this for sure, but it might be easier on the keyboard. For me it’s much much easier to read flats than sharps, especially when accidentals occur. Of course, this means nothing if you don’t read and are playing strictly by ear.

On a side bar about the key signatures of today’s music. This is why I now have a 5 string. Having done the down tuning thing after 40 year of playing conventional tuning on a 4 string for 40 years, mentally, buying a 5 string is the best option of all if affordable. If not, hip shot has down tuners for E string are used often and for most a very affordable option.
 
#47
ics1974 said:
I am a bedroom bass player (4 string bass only) and just like to learn songs and jam to mp3's. My question is regarding songs in Eb tuning.
What does everyone do when a song is tuned to Eb?
-Have a guitar dedicated just for Eb tuning
-Tune your guitar to Eb for that song then tune it back to regular tuning after
-Use software to change the pitch back to regular E tuning
-something else?
Click to expand...

Any of the above, depending on how much time and energy I want to devote to it.
5-String makes it easy.
If it's just one song in a play list I might learn it with only the E string tuned down to Eb, and leave the rest of the bass ADG. Or detune the whole bass if the song is particularly difficult to be played otherwise.
Only once or twice have I ever pitch shifted a song, but it can be done. The times i have done it was for the singer who wanted to do the song in E.
If it's more than one or two songs I'll start using a separate bass.
 
#49
Altitude said:
To bend your minds - check this out. Marcus did it the hard way on his "Higher Ground" cover. He only dropped his E string to Eb and left the others as normal. Imagine how that would wreck your muscle memory.
Click to expand...
Doesn't wreck your muscle memory if that's the way you learn the song in the first place.
When you get beyond the bedroom though, it all depends on how the band wants to approach the song.
  • Are you tuned to E standard normally?
  • Will you play the song in the key that it's written (Eb), or transpose up to E? Or down to D? Or does the singer want to do it in G?
  • If it's the one song you're going to play in Eb (or any key that's awkward to play in standard tuning), what's the easiest approach for you to be able to play it? Probably just playing it an octave up, but then you lose the impact of that low root.
  • However, re-tuning your whole bass down half a step mid-set for one song is cumbersome and awkward on stage at best. Dropping just the lowest string is quick and painless, if your brain can handle it.
  • Grabbing a second instrument is the next best thing if not.
  • Using a 5 string means you can cover it without changing a thing.

I went through this last summer with a song I had to play (on guitar) in C#. Band leader wanted to sing it in C#, but set time was super tight so no time to waste retuning the whole guitar. It sounded really weird and had no impact without that low C#, and since it was the only song in the set that required a re-tune, I opted to learn it by dropping just the E string to C# and leaving the rest of the guitar in standard tuning.

If I was playing bass in that situation I would have either just played the song in key higher up the neck without retuning, or played my 5 for the whole gig to cover that one song.
 
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#50
NKBassman said:
Doesn't wreck your muscle memory if that's the way you learn the song in the first place.
When you get beyond the bedroom, it all depends on how the band wants to approach the song.
  • Are you tuned to E standard normally?
  • Will you play the song in the key that it's written (Eb), or transpose up to E? Or down to D?
  • If it's the one song you're going to play in Eb, what's the easiest approach for you to be able to play it?
  • Retuning your whole bass down half a step mid-set for one song is cumbersome and awkward on stage at best. Dropping just the lowest string is quick and painless, if your brain can handle it.
  • Grabbing a second instrument is the next best thing if not.
  • Using a 5 string means you can cover it without changing a thing.

I went through this last summer with a song I had to play (on guitar) in C#. Band leader wanted to sing it in C#, but set time was super tight so no time to waste retuning the whole guitar. Since it was the only song in the set that required a re-tune, I opted to learn it by dropping just the E string to C# and leaving the rest of the guitar in standard tuning.
Click to expand...
I'm not the bedroom guy though. 35 years in, jazz minor in college, bunch o' gigs.

My point is that bass players think heavily in terms of fretboard geometry. Octaves are two strings up and two frets up. Change the tuning on one string and they're not. Except they still are everywhere that string isn't involved.

Can a guy get past that by shedding the tune? Sure. I suppose that's how Marcus did it, in fact.
 
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#51
To learn and play to mp3 songs, I use a software to change the pitch. In a band, we generally agree to play the songs in E standard, because it's also easier for the guitarist. Yes you can play these songs with a 5-string or an octave above, but try to do that with Beat It or Sweet Child o' Mine, for example ;)
 
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#52
Altitude said:
I'm not the bedroom guy though. 35 years in, jazz minor in college, bunch o' gigs.

My point is that bass players think heavily in terms of fretboard geometry. Octaves are two strings up and two frets up. Change the tuning on one string and they're not. Except they still are everywhere that string isn't involved.

Can a guy get past that by shedding the tune? Sure. I suppose that's how Marcus did it, in fact.
Click to expand...

Sorry, yes. Aside from the first line my post wasn't really directed at you. Just quoting what you said and responding more to the OP/thread in general.

And of course you're right. "Boxes" and relative positions of notes on the fretboard are a very easy way to learn your way around the fretboard for the aspiring player. The easiest modified tuning on guitar is Drop D, because of the way it changes the shape of a power chord (root-5th-octave) into a straight bar chord, which makes certain songs/riffs fundamentally easier to play. This benefit isn't really as profound on bass since most are't playing a lot of chords, but to play along it's sometimes necessary to match the tuning especially if there's a signature riff that needs to be pedaled off that low D note. So you relearn those relationships based around a low-D string instead of a low-E string, and most seem to be able to handle this without a problem. Once you can wrap your mind around Drop D tuning, Drop-anything isn't that far beyond.

I think learning this type of flexibility early on in one's playing is a highly beneficial skill for anyone looking to advance beyond the bedroom in the future.
 
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#53
Altitude said:
To bend your minds - check this out. Marcus did it the hard way on his "Higher Ground" cover. He only dropped his E string to Eb and left the others as normal. Imagine how that would wreck your muscle memory.
Click to expand...

It's not actually that hard, just takes a bit of practice and skill. All guitarists know how to do this. Standard guitar tuning is EADGBE (all 4ths except for the major 3rd between G and B) so any time guitarists learn a new fingerboard shape, they have to shift the pattern by 1 fret when they get to the B string. And we bassists are way smarter than guitarists, so if they can learn to do it, so can we. Marcus Miller plays guitar (in addition to keyboard, clarinet, saxophone, etc.), so he already has the skill set to play a string instrument that is not tuned exclusively in 4ths. :)
 
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#54
Kael said:
Just play it in E or play the song in Eb and hit that one lower note up an octave. No song at any point is worth jacking with my muscle memory/ear interaction by retuning.
Click to expand...
There is no muscle memory issue. If song was played in standard tuning down a half step- it is easentially the same. Earwise if the tones are as recorded, they are the same.
I get that one can tell the E is actually an Eb but tuning down across all 4 strings- this becomes basically irrelevant for all but the most "perfect pitch" players.
 
#55
Great suggestions so far.

As for artists that use e flat, Stevie Wonder cones to mind. G&R, Mettalica, KISS, Rage, Nirvana and Hendrix.

"These are a few of my favorite things"

" Blue Train"

" Take Five"

" Good Bye Pork Pie Hat"

" Stars and Stripes Forever"

" Round Midnight"

So many more. Great brain teaser.
 
#56
Altitude said:
To bend your minds - check this out. Marcus did it the hard way on his "Higher Ground" cover. He only dropped his E string to Eb and left the others as normal. Imagine how that would wreck your muscle memory.

Click to expand...


That's how I've always done it. It's actually not that hard, and super convenient if you have to go back to standard tuning quickly. If fact, it's actually good, in the sense, that it takes you out of the fretboard-shapes-auto-pilot comfort zone.
 
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