Ebay Restricted item?

[Ric5]

1)You might want to try learning what CITES actually is before going all drama queen. CITES website. Protecting endangered species is not a bad thing.

2)Maple is not the only alternative to rosewood.

3)Ebay is not a bunch of unelected, unimpeachable bureaucrats that exist only to make your life impossible. They are a business which you are free to choose to do business with, or not. It's pretty simple. Don't like Ebay? Don't use Ebay!

I have researched this for many hours ... it looks like the end game is a total shutdown of commerce in rosewood ...

The bureaucrats I was talking about are the ones enforcing CITES

 

[Ric5]

The only party that is out any money here is Ebay.

Actually Ebay sold my bass to a 3rd party who is selling it on ebay right now ...

and the real kicker is there is no wood from any endangered species on that bass ... but because CITES has gone Nazi on this and restricted the entire genus which includes many non-endangered species we are looking at the eventual shut down of commerce in rosewood. Yes it will take a few years to get there. But rosewood will go the way of ivory and tortoise shell.

Fortunately I like maple fretboards ...

 

[Ric5]

Someone in Brazil should start a rosewood tree plantation and manage this resource in a renewable way.

 

[BruceWane]

Yes, it's the buyer that eBay quite literally stole from. The buyer legally bought the item and is the owner. Ebay global shipping is a means to transport the buyers property to him. They unabashedly took said property without the buyers consent. It doesn't matter if they refunded his money or how much they refunded compared to its worth, it wasn't theirs to take. Their only excuse is that they are acting as an agent of the government but they are doing so without authority and without due process. I don't see how anyone can think this isn't a problem.

Ok, this took all of about 10 seconds to find.

Ebay User Agreement

It's all in there, all the things you consent to when you accept Ebay's user agreement, which you must do if you're going to use Ebay , buyer or seller.

Nothing was done "without consent", "without authority", or "without due process". The parties involved agreed to all of this.

 

[BruceWane]

Someone in Brazil should start a rosewood tree plantation and manage this resource in a renewable way.

Yes. Exactly. This is the end-game of CITES.

"CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival."

 

[Ric5]

Ok, this took all of about 10 seconds to find.

Ebay User Agreement

It's all in there, all the things you consent to when you accept Ebay's user agreement, which you must do if you're going to use Ebay , buyer or seller.

Nothing was done "without consent", "without authority", or "without due process". The parties involved agreed to all of this.

This CITES stuff has to be a pain in ebay's side as well

 

[Ric5]

Yes. Exactly. This is the end-game of CITES.

"CITES (the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) is an international agreement between governments. Its aim is to ensure that international trade in specimens of wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival."

Except I don't trust them to do it right ... they are already restricting non endangered species ... Bureaucrats will have good intentions but they will screw it up ... I DON'T BELIEVE THEY WILL ENSURE TRADE AT ALL ... But rather they will enforce draconian measures which may not even protect endangered species ...

 

[BruceWane]

This CITES stuff has to be a pain in ebay's side as well

Yeah, I'd imagine so.

Apparently, they figure it's cheaper to pay off a transaction and see what they can recoup through bulk/lot sales than it is to try to gather documentation for customs and escort something through that process.

I know a lot of retailers do that with returned goods, especially electronics - they give refunds, then a lot of that stuff never goes back on the shelf. More hassle than it's worth to fully test, repackage, etc., so it goes in a bin that gets auctioned, and then it ends up..... on Ebay . I used to know a guy that did that for a living.

Reason I say Ebay's the one that's out money here is that I doubt they get back what this kind of thing costs them. Kinda hard to quantify though, since they sell this kind of stuff in lots, as the current "owner/seller" indicated.

It's pretty weird overall, but all things considered I kinda think it's better to see that this bass is still alive and well and likely headed to someone to be played. Better than locked away in a crate somewhere, or crushed and sent to a landfill.

 

[gln1955]

Ok, this took all of about 10 seconds to find.

Ebay User Agreement

It's all in there, all the things you consent to when you accept Ebay's user agreement, which you must do if you're going to use Ebay , buyer or seller.

Nothing was done "without consent", "without authority", or "without due process". The parties involved agreed to all of this.

Since you are so good at this, where exactly in this tome is the part where eBay gets to confiscate what they believe to be restricted items and then sell them to a third party?

 

[JKos]

Are they using your pictures? I ask because of the partially disassembled picture.

- John

Another wrinkle in the story ...

the bass that started this thread that got sold and then confiscated ... even though there were no restricted woods on the bass ...

Well that very same bass

is

now

listed on ebay

Rickenbacker 4003S 5 String Bass Guitar w/ Hard Shell Case | eBay

 

[Ric5]

Are they using your pictures? I ask because of the partially disassembled picture.

- John

Yes ... my bass ... my pics ...

 

[Jeff Scott]

1)You might want to try learning what CITES actually is before going all drama queen. CITES website. Protecting endangered species is not a bad thing.

2)Maple is not the only alternative to rosewood.

3)Ebay is not a bunch of unelected, unimpeachable bureaucrats that exist only to make your life impossible. They are a business which you are free to choose to do business with, or not. It's pretty simple. Don't like Ebay? Don't use Ebay!

Considering the seller got to keep his selling price in his pocket, and the buyer's not out anything either, I'd say it's more weird than sketchy.

I'd certainly think it'd be cheaper for Ebay to send the item back to the seller. On the outward appearance, I can't imagine they made money on this deal.

But considering they'd probably get sued by at least some percentage of unhappy customers for "interfering in free trade" or some such if they did otherwise, my guess is that this is just tallied up as a cost of doing business. This costs less than lawyers. If they weren't still turning a profit overall, they'd either change the policy or just stop offering the global shipping service.

Also, I'm quite sure they don't want to get sideways with the customs service of ANY country and have all their shipments flagged/held/whatever at whatever border. When it comes to something like CITES, they're just not going to take any chances.

For practically every business, you don't make a profit on every transaction. Sometimes it's prudent (read: more profitable overall) to eat an expense here and there in order to continue to offer a popular service.

FWIW, I've sent a few items through their global shipping service with no issues.

There was NO CITES restricted wood on the bass that ebay stole from Jeff. Yes, they paid him back but what ebay did was criminal, IMO.

 

[Ric5]

There was NO CITES restricted wood on the bass that ebay stole from Jeff. Yes, they paid him back but what ebay did was criminal, IMO.

Yes ... stole ... Rickenbacker does not use restricted woods on their bass guitars.

So what is next?

Will they confiscate instruments from touring musicians???

Will they confiscate guitar and bass collections?

Will people go to jail for buying and selling instruments with rosewood?

Will they shut down Gibson, Fender, Rickenbacker, and others?

 

[flojob]

Yes ... stole ... Rickenbacker does not use restricted woods on their bass guitars.

So what is next?

Will they confiscate instruments from touring musicians???

Will they confiscate guitar and bass collections?

Will people go to jail for buying and selling instruments with rosewood?

Will they shut down Gibson, Fender, Rickenbacker, and others?

Probably not. Them folks have money. Different rules, sometimes.

 

[Ric5]

Probably not. Them folks have money. Different rules, sometimes.

Perhaps the manufacturers will simply pay fines and the prices of instruments will go up.

That already happened to Gibson.

Basically that is legalized extortion.

 

[Ross W. Lovell]

1)You might want to try learning what CITES actually is before going all drama queen. CITES website. Protecting endangered species is not a bad thing.

2)Maple is not the only alternative to rosewood.

3)Ebay is not a bunch of unelected, unimpeachable bureaucrats that exist only to make your life impossible. They are a business which you are free to choose to do business with, or not. It's pretty simple. Don't like Ebay? Don't use Ebay!

Hey Bruce, EBay did something bad here and saying we don't have to use them while they appear to be able to change the rules of commerce is heinous.

You should amend that statement, Don't like what they did, SUE them, use your State's Attorney General.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

So, effectively, ebay did control who may sell this bass to whom - sounds too much 1984ish, to me; and the correspondence with ebay and the new seller seemed to be exemplary Kafkaesque.

Granted, the seller got his money - yet, if I were the buyer, I'd feel *****, excuse my French

 

[Feral Feline]

As the buyer or seller I'd be madder than a bleep that's blooping and bleeop-bloooep besides.


Can you "buy it now" and get it back? Would be great if you can buy it back for less than you sold it, then you'd have a little profit and a cool bass to play/sell again.

 

[TheAnalogKid]

Perhaps the manufacturers will simply pay fines and the prices of instruments will go up.

That already happened to Gibson.

Basically that is legalized extortion.

Other manufacturers will go the Fender (amongst others) route, and use Pau Ferro as a substitute for rosewood. Problem is, how to ensure that pau ferro on any instrument is not mistaken for endangered rosewood? Likely not any Customs agency nor the DoF&W will have a clue.

Moreover, any rosewood on instruments made before the CITES addenda took effect (i.e., older instruments) shoud be grandfathered in (read: exempted). The wood was used, the deal is done, can't un-ring the bell!

 

[Passinwind]

Moreover, any rosewood on instruments made before the CITES addenda took effect (i.e., older instruments) shoud be grandfathered in (read: exempted).

It is exempted, but you still need the permits to document that.