Eden vs Mark Bass vs ?

[DJ Bebop]

The 100Hz bump was the result of tuning the cabinet for an under-damped response. Some manufactures still do this with Neo drivers but those who have migrated towards the higher end of the market have generally refined their designs to reduce this and take advantage of a more balanced, smoother low end response without the LF bump and dip in the mids.

So are you saying when the speaker is allowed to oscillate because of being under-damped and it gets that "boomy" or "one-note" bass thing, where the speaker lingers on low frequencies longer than it should, potentially masking subsequent frequencies, was a feature and not a mistake?

 

[DJ Bebop]

Appreciate the response.

This would make sense if I was dialing in a scooped bedroom sound.....but I'm not. I'm also using an HPF so mud is rarely a problem for me.

By your own use of an HPF, it seems you are trying to dial out some of what that speaker provides on its own, without dialing in a scooped bedroom sound. It's already there in the cabinet.

As I said before that was a sound from a period that a lot of manufacturers were going for because of folks looking for that tone then. After a while, most players noticed that sound might be good and usable up close or in small spaces but as you notice as you put more distance between you and your speaker, it gets lost. Others noticed this too, other than the good feeling of pant legs flapping, their sound is getting lost on stage, in the mix, in the audience. So folks wanted something that would project into the room more, more balanced. Aguilar had the GS line of cabinets, very deep, very scooped. It was a favorite sound for a lot of players on the pro circuit. Aguilar doesn't make that speaker line anymore, why? Because folks wanted something more balanced and after providing what folks now wanted and sales dropped on the GS line and picked up on the DB and SL lines. Tastes change, that might be part of the reason Eden is not producing those cabinets anymore, or anything else from that era.

BTW I have an old school GS 112 that I kept because of that scooped sound. I like the dark fat sound for small things like house parties, coffee shops. Places where there is no PA support for me and I still want a subby sound and don't need a lot of projection into the room. When I want to be heard more articulately, it's the Mesa 115 all day long

 

[-Stingray]

By your own use of an HPF, it seems you are trying to dial out some of what that speaker provides on its own, without dialing in a scooped bedroom sound. It's already there in the cabinet.

Not exactly. I should have clarified my use of the HPF a bit more. I’m running it on both my PA and my board, but it’s set very subtly—just enough to filter out frequencies that most cabinets aren’t reproducing anyway. During testing, it’s toggled as needed.

While I’m open to the idea that the newer Neo cabs are intentionally voiced to reduce muddiness, I still find that I can achieve deep, clear lows—without any mud—from my Eden cab in a way I haven’t been able to replicate with the Neo models I’ve tried. That said, I’m willing to concede it could simply be a result of newer design choices or the use of lighter cab materials.

 

[12bass]

While I’m open to the idea that the newer Neo cabs are intentionally voiced to reduce muddiness, I still find that I can achieve deep, clear lows—without any mud—from my Eden cab in a way I haven’t been able to replicate with the Neo models I’ve tried. That said, I’m willing to concede it could simply be a result of newer design choices or the use of lighter cab materials.

From what I recall, having played through a D-410XLT on a few occasions, it is a cabinet that throws a healthy amount of low mids and midbass, say the region from 100 - 350Hz. Had a D-210XLT for several years and never found it that great for really deep bottom as the port tuning seems to be above low-E (41Hz), meaning it can't reproduce the low fundamentals. For whatever reason, I thought the 4x10" version sounded significantly better, with some serious projection. Someone stole the D-210XLT and I replaced it with a D-210XST which aligned much more closely with my tonal preferences... flatter, deeper, response.

That said, my T3W fEARful 15/6/1 goes almost an octave deeper than that old D-210XLT, reproducing a lot more low frequency fundamental and first overtone. It also delivers far more heft down low than a D-410XLT ever could, though it doesn't have the efficiency and low-midrange "bark" of the Eden. It is flatter and less voiced overall.

 

[Nebadon2000]

The 100Hz bump was the result of tuning the cabinet for an under-damped response. Some manufactures still do this with Neo drivers but those who have migrated towards the higher end of the market have generally refined their designs to reduce this and take advantage of a more balanced, smoother low end response without the LF bump and dip in the mids.

Yes when I was gigging in the 'Old Days' Cab's[including Eden which I had] had seemingly purposefully placed Mid Bass humps and somewhat scooped Mid's very pleasing and gives perception of 'Big Bass' on Stage and I was content

Now after hearing my Subway 1x15 and other excellent designs of today I would have choose them; even back then if available

IME the Subway 1x15 is very balanced and musical in the Mid Bass on down range[and overall] for me hearing the Mid Bass note definition and articulation is important now
and for the first time allows me to hear the real low extension with authority and clarity as it differs from Mid Bass

Also weight of equipment back then was necessary for better designs based on technology available and lighter top Neo Cabs of today are no less in overall quality, tone and build because of it

But I give way to what a fellow TB'er who preaches " Play what you like and like what you play"

 

[Nebadon2000]

That said.....I'm not finished in my quest to find a NEO that I'm happy with. I've heard good things about the Bergantino 2x12 Neos. They are next on my list to test.

Bergantino also has some NXV series left and also new 'Limited Edition' NV410T vertical 4x10 with Ceramic Drivers/sealed cab at only 79lbs

According to Berg;

The Bergantino NXV Series of lightweight bass cabinets retain the great Bergantino tone, but in a more classic looking and sounding package. Taking its cue from the award-winning NXT range, the NXV Series was designed to give those players whose musical styles demand a more old-school tone and playing experience.

The NXT's I heard were excellent haven't heard NXV

 

[agedhorse]

Yes when I was gigging in the 'Old Days' Cab's[including Eden which I had] had seemingly purposefully placed Mid Bass humps and somewhat scooped Mid's very pleasing and gives perception of 'Big Bass' on Stage and I was content

Now after hearing my Subway 1x15 and other excellent designs of today I would have choose them; even back then if available

IME the Subway 1x15 is very balanced and musical in the Mid Bass on down range[and overall] for me hearing the Mid Bass note definition and articulation is important now
and for the first time allows me to hear the real low extension with authority and clarity as it differs from Mid Bass

Also weight of equipment back then was necessary for better designs based on technology available and lighter top Neo Cabs of today are no less in overall quality, tone and build because of it

But I give way to what a fellow TB'er who preaches " Play what you like and like what you play"

Correct, this was a popular (and somewhat useful) voicing, especially with lower powered amps.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Low mids, bump them.

 

[TheDutch47]

Are Eden 115 XLT cabs voiced with the same low mid bump as the 10" cabs?

 

[Mario Keresztes]

Markbass HF cabs have more bottom then?

 

[SJan3]

Markbass HF cabs have more bottom then?

Yes

 

[Mario Keresztes]

Yes

The latest models are rear ported?

Markbass MB58R 102 PURE is the best 2x10 they make?​

What's the difference between the

Markbass MB58R CMD 102 PURE​

and the Markbass CMD 102 P V 2x10 Combo Bass Amp Black?

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Are Eden 115 XLT cabs voiced with the same low mid bump as the 10" cabs?

Yes. All the Eden XLT amps have the built in low-mid hump. The XST cabs have a lower and more focused bottom end and a flatter response across their spectrum between the roll-offs at each end. You can get an XST to sound similar to an XLT cab by adding a little low-mid boost to it pretty much anywhere between 250Hz and 500Hz. That's what I do with David's post-Eden DNA cabs (he left Eden in 2009 to found DNA amps). It's not really the same as the XLT when you do that but it is close. And yes again that D115XLT definitely has the low-mid hump that sounds soooooo good.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Correct, this was a popular (and somewhat useful) voicing, especially with lower powered amps.

Yes it sounds good with low-power amps, but it was not hardly relegated to just low power amps either, at least not with Eden . The D410XLT (700-watts rms power handling) was most commonly paired with the WT800 (the A model pre-2005), which bridges at 800-watts into an 8Ω cab. Later WT800's (post mid-2005) could bridge into 4Ω.

Funny thing was, after David came out with the XST series, which were the later cabs with higher power-handling and lower bottom end, but a little less sensitivity (rated 103db@1W/1M vs 106db@1W/1M for the XLT), the XLT's still outsold them for many years.

 

[SJan3]

The latest models are rear ported?

Markbass MB58R 102 PURE is the best 2x10 they make?​

What's the difference between the

Markbass MB58R CMD 102 PURE​

and the Markbass CMD 102 P V 2x10 Combo Bass Amp Black?

About 8.5 lbs for starters. The CMD102PV can be tilted back into monitor mode and it is front ported.
The 58R probably has the new "HIFI" tweeter. They both have the same 58R 500 watt LittleMark amp. Just two variations on a 2x10 combo. If weight is an issue, I'd go MB58R Pure combo. If you'd benefit from the tilt back option then the CMD102PV is your baby. It has been around for a while and is favored by many.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I have an Eden WT500 Highwayman David era amp bridged into a XLT410. This is my stay @ home too heavy & old to move rig. Great condition, still sounds great.

Since 2008 my main rig is a Markbass Jeff Berlin Combo on top of a NY151 cab. 500 watts into 2 neo 15s.

I often rotate between the 2 while playing at home. I love the high fidelity of the Eden rig but would have to say I lean towards the Markbass sound . Especially if I need to travel with my amp. Zero buyer’s remorse with this combo. I’d strongly consider Mesa as well.

My buddy just got his Mesa TT800 & 2 Mesa 1-15 cabs. We’re 3 hours apart but I’m anxious to try it out. He’s still dialing his sound in with the Mesa. He’s got a bunch of amps besides so he’ll get there eventually.

 

[TheDutch47]

Yes. All the Eden XLT amps have the built in low-mid hump. The XST cabs have a lower and more focused bottom end and a flatter response across their spectrum between the roll-offs at each end. You can get an XST to sound similar to an XLT cab by adding a little low-mid boost to it pretty much anywhere between 250Hz and 500Hz. That's what I do with David's post-Eden DNA cabs (he left Eden in 2009 to found DNA amps). It's not really the same as the XLT when you do that but it is close. And yes again that D115XLT definitely has the low-mid hump that sounds soooooo good.

I currently use a D115T with my D210XLT. I have been thinking about getting a D115XLT only because the XLT handles more power. I use a 500w head but never need to push it very hard to get a lot of volume, however I am always nervous because I could overpower the D115T.
The D115T does not (to my ears at least) have the low mid bump and pairs very nicely with the D210XLT.
Since all XLT cabs are voiced in a similar way, I think I'll stick with the D115T.

 

[Mario Keresztes]

Does the mute switch on the Mark Bass combos turn off just the speakers? Or does it effect the Direct In as well?

Looking to mute the speakers and record via Direct In.

 

[agedhorse]

The direct is an output not an input. The mute switch generally mutes the direct output.

Just unplug the speaker from the amp.

 

[Mario Keresztes]

Well took the Mark Bass 2x10 Combo (Tilt Back Model) for a test drive. Sounds great to my ears. Plenty of low end! Now to make my final decision...