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Eden WTDI Direct Box/Preamp

#261
Say folks--
I have a WTDI right now for review purposes, and there's one thing I can't answer on my own: how closely does it nail the sound of a "classic" Eden head? I'm talking to the golden ears, champagne tastes, super finicky people among you who actually have an Eden head for direct comparison. Please don't bother posting "it's the preamp section of an Eden head, so it should sound the same". In a direct A/B, through a high-fidelity cab, exactly how similar is it?

If you hear differences, could you describe them?

Thanks very much!
 
#262
Snap! I have recently done detailed comparisons of my WTX260 vs my classic 1998 WT400 and WTX264 through my Berg AE410 and Mesa Radiator 12 cabs. I was able to get WTX to sound very close to the WT400 in it's EQ flat Enhance at 9:00 setting. I'm on vacation for this week and won't be able to do a direct comparison to the WTDI until Sunday but I will do it. I also run a Cubase system so I can do direct recordings and let you guys be the judge. Looking forward to this expirment! I'll report back then!!

Until then when the proof is in the puddin, IMO the WTDI hits the Eden sound almost exactly for all but the most decerning individuals. Even then, I would consider myself among the most decerning individuals and I tell people it's a great product that nails the Eden tone. Not the flexability of the WT series preamps but the EQ flat tone and enhance in the 8:00-11:00 range it can do in spades. The WTDI will need a little tweaking to get that sound but it can do it.

I'll record comparisons with all the heads in the flat position then the tweaked WTDI that got me the closest to the WT400 and post the settings. Anything else I should add?
 
#264
MuthaFunk said:
Not the flexability of the WT series preamps but the EQ flat tone and enhance in the 8:00-11:00 range it can do in spades. The WTDI will need a little tweaking to get that sound but it can do it.

I'll record comparisons with all the heads in the flat position then the tweaked WTDI that got me the closest to the WT400 and post the settings. Anything else I should add?
Click to expand...

What would be awesome too is if you could set your WT400 to whatever you feel is "the most desirable Eden tone", and then see how close the WTDI can get to that tone. The object wouldn't be to make them sound identical necessarily, but to set a high bar and see how wellthe WTDI jumps. :)

Thanks for doing the comparisons!
 
#265
bongomania said:
What would be awesome too is if you could set your WT400 to whatever you feel is "the most desirable Eden tone", and then see how close the WTDI can get to that tone. The object wouldn't be to make them sound identical necessarily, but to set a high bar and see how wellthe WTDI jumps. :)

Thanks for doing the comparisons!
Click to expand...


Will do. I'm glad I can help! I'll post up next Sunday.
 
#266
Ah ha! I was wondering when bongo would ever get one of these to try out... and some said it might never happen... ;)

bongomania said:
Say folks--
I have a WTDI right now for review purposes, and there's one thing I can't answer on my own: how closely does it nail the sound of a "classic" Eden head? I'm talking to the golden ears, champagne tastes, super finicky people among you who actually have an Eden head for direct comparison. Please don't bother posting "it's the preamp section of an Eden head, so it should sound the same". In a direct A/B, through a high-fidelity cab, exactly how similar is it?

If you hear differences, could you describe them?

Thanks very much!
Click to expand...
 
#267
bongomania said:
Say folks--
I have a WTDI right now for review purposes, and there's one thing I can't answer on my own: how closely does it nail the sound of a "classic" Eden head? I'm talking to the golden ears, champagne tastes, super finicky people among you who actually have an Eden head for direct comparison. Please don't bother posting "it's the preamp section of an Eden head, so it should sound the same". In a direct A/B, through a high-fidelity cab, exactly how similar is it?

If you hear differences, could you describe them?

Thanks very much!
Click to expand...

I got around to playing with the Eden heads and WTDI tonight!! I used my preferred settings on my WT400 for my FBass and Bergantino AE410:

-Gain set to peak light just coming on with the loudest transient of each note.

-Enhance 8:00

-Bass up 2 clicks from 12:00

-Low Freq set at 9:00, and level up 2 clicks from 12:00

-Mid both at 12:00

-High Freq up 1 click from 12:00, and level up 1 click from 12:00

-Treble 12:00

-Compressor Engaged (Normally I use an external compressor)

Here's some of the sound clips. I've also included a raw bass track to so you can hear how much all three really impart the Eden sound.

http://soundcloud.com/muthafunk-1/sets/eden-bass-pre-amp-comparisons

First I matched the WTX260 and WTDI to the WT400 through the AE410. They were pretty darn close to my ears. I used the power amp in the WTX260 for the WTDI. Then I recorded them direct out to Cubase and to my surprise the sounded quite different. I re-adjusted them to get as close as I could but the superior EQ of the WT400 showed its strength. All of the recordings sound very Eden like and even the direct recordings are close to each other but not exactly the same. I didn't devote too much time into getting them matched perfectly but rather a quick set up as I would at a practice or gig.

My general observations were that the WTDI is a very good copy of the other two but not the exact same. The controls are much the same as the WTX260 but there are very minor subtle differences even between the WTX260 and WTDI. IMO The WTDI has a little more zing in the upper treble frequency that is hard to remove compared to the WT400 and a slightly less refined sound in comparison to both the WTX260 and WT400. Now I'm being really picky as through a live rig I think most would have a hard time noticing the differences. Direct recordings with good monitors can reveal the subtle differences but without an A/B comparison I don't think most people would notice or care because it's so close.

IMHO the WTDI is all EDEN and for all intents and purposes it does exactly what it's supposed to do. Sound like an Eden amp. I have done a very close match to my WT400 all flat and Enhance at 9:00 which is a favorite setting for many Eden users. When one exercises the WT series' powerful EQ the WTDI can get lost in trying to copy those tones but it always seems to sound good. I really like it's subtle compressor as well!
 
#268
Wow. Thanks so much for laying those samples down. I have been on the fence about getting one of these because I didn't know if it could replicate the classic Eden sound. It get's darn close. I bought a WT300 back in '96 and finally passed it on to one of my students a couple of years ago. I simply needed more clean/transparent power for my upright. I settled on a Genz-Benz Shuttle 9.0 (900w@4ohm). The power is very nice, but it can be a bit sterile. I am thinking Bass->Eden->Effects Return.
 
#269
My band from Australia is in Los Angeles right now doing a few gigs, and I've just purchased one of these from Sam Ash Hollywood, to complement the Thumb 5 I'm hiring from SIR. I'm using it to go direct into PA's down at some venues on Hermosa Beach and I'm really keen to see how it performs. When I get home I'll try it through my Warwick WA300 and also my Behringer BX1200 to see how things go. I've heard good things about Warwick+Eden :) This pedal, I'm confident, will save me lugging my bass amp to a lot of gigs!
 
#270
Okay so here's an update. The gig went well. I used a Warwick Thumb NT 5 through a Eden WTDI straight into the desk.

Works great as a straight up DI. Know how I know this? Because I spent the first set with the unit in bypass mode! Yeah, I thought the red LED meant the box was engaged, but nope. It sounded fine, but I knew something wasn't right. Very raw sounding. Workable, though.

Did some Googling in the set break and sorted it. Second set I had the it engaged and it sounded effing fantastic! No clipping problems, and my Thumb is running an 18v pre, although I did have the bass's volume knob turned back a bit.

Anyway, Im happy with the unit so far and will use it whenever I play a venue that has a PA that can handle my bass going direct. Awesome!
 
#271
MuthaFunk said:
IMHO the WTDI is all EDEN and for all intents and purposes it does exactly what it's supposed to do. Sound like an Eden amp.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this statement - I just picked one up and A/B'd it with my WT400 using my Sadowsky Metro RV5. I ran the WTDI through the power amp of the WT400 via the Aux In into my Eden 110. The WT400 beats it with the tube warmth for sure; however, the WTDI gets high marks for the rest - fat, punchy Eden tone. The tone is not sterile at all or solid state sounding, just less warm when A/B'd against the WT400. In a mix or through a PA, no way you would tell the difference.

I also like the compressor - subtle yet effective. The ticket with this preamp - use the gain as your input control depending on whether your bass is active or passive. My WT400 isn't known for it's OD tone and this preamp isn't designed to do that either IMO. I hear too many folks dislike this DI due to gain issues but understanding how an Eden amp works goes a long way towards making the DI do the job for you.
 
#274
Jaycephas said:
I hear too many folks dislike this DI due to gain issues but understanding how an Eden amp works goes a long way towards making the DI do the job for you.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand this.

I have used two Eden WT-800s since 1996, and my knowledge of that amp has no bearing whatsoever on the fact that the WTDI's gain stage is problematic.

What does the one have to do with the other?
 
#275
I purchased the WTDI and have no issues with the gain stage whereas others have complained that it is too hot for them. As you are aware, the WT400 has a gain/master configuration. So what I meant was that I use the gain stage to adjust input volume depending on how hot the signal from the bass I am using is into the unit, then use the master volume to adjust the overall signal after EQ. Others who don't have an Eden amp, or any amp for that matter, with a gain/master configuration may push the gain too hot and get unwanted distortion.
 
#278
Jaycephas said:
Others who don't have an Eden amp, or any amp for that matter, with a gain/master configuration may push the gain too hot and get unwanted distortion.
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea how few bass amps in existence do NOT have a gain/master configuration? Just a handful of all-tube heads from the 70's.

The idea that Eden has anything to do with it...
 

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