What I like about my Contrabassetto (and the EAP accentuates it) is that despite it's little body Andrea has managed to design and build a really beautifully toned upright bass with a full bass response but also clarity and a totally singing top end. It does not project acoustically to the end of a hall but it does to the end of a microphone without compromise. My old Tyrolean flatback had too much bass and too open a sound. I was always fighting for clarity because the resonant lower partials were in a big soup. I tried the EAP on that bass 7 or 8 years ago and it just accentuated that aspect to some degree. But these small basses (if they are actually basses and not plywood boxes) can amplify so well and sound better in context. @Kristian has one coming from Andrea for a long time now (thru some serious world turmoil to be sure) I am super excited to hear the new bass. I'll bet this pickup sounds great on it.
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Double Bass Ehrlund "Sweet Spot", anyone?
- Thread starter William Hoffman
- Start date
Right now I’m using a similar sized instrument but it’s not very good built. Still, it’s impressive what you can do with a small instrument. Many people have commented on the sound and it cuts through very well.
I use the yamahiko or a mic most of the time and it works quite well but if I could make it work with the EAP, it would be awesome!
As I mentioned above, my main bass is a 5/8ths sized instrument. It has a great low end, but it's not muddy, so the definition is already there acoustically. The Ehrlund EAP just boosts the volume but not the bass response.
I've also used the EAP on my wife's 3/4 size Knilling with no issues either. A player here in St. Louis who owns a 3/4 Nick Lloyd was having some issues, so we put our heads together and after a process of elimination discovered
that most of his issues were with the AER Amp one he was using and not the Ehlund EAP.
I've also used the EAP on my wife's 3/4 size Knilling with no issues either. A player here in St. Louis who owns a 3/4 Nick Lloyd was having some issues, so we put our heads together and after a process of elimination discovered
that most of his issues were with the AER Amp one he was using and not the Ehlund EAP.
I really really like the EAP straight into the Sarno V8. Damn. But Back to the OP I think that the EAP combined with a really good HPF ( the Sarno works well but) the Felix makes so many different positions possible on my bass. Some of the spots farther off the bass bar sound great for acoustic woody tone but resonate the bass way too much but crank up the HPF c’est Voila! Those spots seem to work well mixed with a piezo. The Felix alone with the EAP sounds great
I recently had a professional setup on my bass. Sounds much better, so I just started experimenting with Ehrlund placement to locate the Sweet Spot. There are several good spots -- maybe three out of 20 placements I've tried. I'm recording from the Ehrlund into a Fishman jack --> EDB-2 H.E. preamp --> Zoom F8 field recorder. I've noticed a correlation between the quality of sound and the waveform in my DAW. The best locations also have the most robust waveforms. This may be unique to my bass, but I wanted to share in case the idea is helpful.
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That's a very elegant and simple setup for mounting the 1/4" jack to the after lengths. I'm glad it works on your bass. I had an issue with that setup ( I bought the BP-100 jack assembly) when I'd use a right angle 1/4" connector into the Fishman connector. I kept pulling it off the after lengths, so
I had to use the plastic pipe clamp threaded through the string at the back of the tailpiece that the Realist setup has. It doesn't disconnect from the tailpiece with that setup. Just my take
Can anyone confirm how many dB's the Ehrlund preamp can amplify signal? Oddly, this information is not on their website. My Headway EDB-2 H.E is 0dB - 32dB on each channel, with phantom optionally available on both channels (11v or 48v).
Been playing and recording and listening to the EAP plugged in with the Felix and another piezo (kind of out of a fear that when push comes to shove and we get back to playing for real) I am going to need that more direct sound mixed in, but I keep coming back to just the EAP sound. It sounds GOOD. I had it yesterday so that the blend knob was way far over toward the EAP with the other pickup just a little bit in there. Then I just unplugged the whole thing and plugged the EAP back directly into the Sarno V8. Oh yeah. Love that sound. The EAP into the V8 is really something else. The eq on the V8 works so well, the treble really articulating the Air and the bass knob clarity (the imp dial also has HPF effect) so nice.
All right, you guys! My gear- phobic self is more and more tempted by this conversation. I have been happy with my basic EAP setup for years but I admit the Sarno stuff is very interesting. Curses! I may have to actually buy something.
The Ehrlund manual provides zero information on the preamp's signal boost in dB's. Such an odd omission!
https://ehrlund.se/wp-content/uploads/EHRLUND-EAP-MANUAL.pdf (starting on p. 7)
FEATURES ● Linear frequency response ● Low noise amplifier ● Very natural and true to the input source ● Close to zero “coloration” of the sound ● Input: 1 x 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack ● Output: Preamp Portable: 1 x 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack Preamp Phantom: 1 x 3-Pin XLR female ● Preamp Portable turns itself on/off when the OUTPUT jack is connected/disconnected ● Preamp Phantom gets power from +48V Phantom feed at the audio interface ● Phase switch 0/180° ● HIGH/LOW switch to “pad” the input level from the pickup ● Adjustable volume knob
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS PREAMP PORTABLE Input Impedance 4.7 MΩ Output Impedance >1.2 KΩ Full Gain Impedance 100 Ω Output Voltage Max 2V RMS Frequency Response 5 Hz - 160 kHz ± 1 dB Current Consumption 0.5 mA Dimensions 92 x 60 x 37 mm (3⅝ x 2 23 ⁄64 x 1 29 ⁄64 in) Weight 150 g (5.29 oz) Supply Voltage Minimum 7.2V / Optimally 9V Connections Input: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Output: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Battery 1 x 9V (6LR61/6LF22/MN1604)
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS PREAMP PHANTOM Input Impedance 4.7 MΩ Frequency Response 5 Hz - 160 kHz ± 1 dB Current Consumption 2.5 mA Dimensions 92 x 60 x 37 mm (3⅝ x 2 23 ⁄64 x 1 29 ⁄64 in) Weight 105 g (3.70 oz) Supply voltage +48V Phantom Connections Input: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Output: 3-Pin XLR female.
https://ehrlund.se/wp-content/uploads/EHRLUND-EAP-MANUAL.pdf (starting on p. 7)
FEATURES ● Linear frequency response ● Low noise amplifier ● Very natural and true to the input source ● Close to zero “coloration” of the sound ● Input: 1 x 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack ● Output: Preamp Portable: 1 x 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack Preamp Phantom: 1 x 3-Pin XLR female ● Preamp Portable turns itself on/off when the OUTPUT jack is connected/disconnected ● Preamp Phantom gets power from +48V Phantom feed at the audio interface ● Phase switch 0/180° ● HIGH/LOW switch to “pad” the input level from the pickup ● Adjustable volume knob
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS PREAMP PORTABLE Input Impedance 4.7 MΩ Output Impedance >1.2 KΩ Full Gain Impedance 100 Ω Output Voltage Max 2V RMS Frequency Response 5 Hz - 160 kHz ± 1 dB Current Consumption 0.5 mA Dimensions 92 x 60 x 37 mm (3⅝ x 2 23 ⁄64 x 1 29 ⁄64 in) Weight 150 g (5.29 oz) Supply Voltage Minimum 7.2V / Optimally 9V Connections Input: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Output: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Battery 1 x 9V (6LR61/6LF22/MN1604)
TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS PREAMP PHANTOM Input Impedance 4.7 MΩ Frequency Response 5 Hz - 160 kHz ± 1 dB Current Consumption 2.5 mA Dimensions 92 x 60 x 37 mm (3⅝ x 2 23 ⁄64 x 1 29 ⁄64 in) Weight 105 g (3.70 oz) Supply voltage +48V Phantom Connections Input: 6.3 mm (¼ in) mono tele jack. Output: 3-Pin XLR female.
Here is the reason to forgo the EAP preamp in preference for something much much better: The EAP needs boatloads of gain. Not cheap amplification either, that is IMO 9 volts of gain aint gunna cut it. With only a little time playing the EAP I can hear that it sounds best when you don't try and maximize the sound by squishing it into the top plate or using a more direct tone placement, just let a good preamp do that. The whole thing about the EAP is that totally realistic mic tone it gets when you dial it in for acoustic. You don't want it to sound it's worst just to get a slight gain boost or directness, those are better had other ways (and other pickups)...which means that if you have a really good tube preamp or Felix you can get that excellent signal pretty loud. Loud enough to be able to play sensitively and have it project that great tone -loud enough and unsquished enough to use all the time. Even so I have to crank the gain. The Sarno V8 is what Brad Sarno calls a clean machine- a tube preamp made (not like nearly every other tube preamp made to distort) to deliver the most hifi clean tube tone you can get. It uses Octal tubes, which are less loud but have more clarity and presence). The BB sounds great with the EAP but it uses a single 12AX7 tube and sounds a little more grainy (think BW film grain)...the Noble I think uses 12Ax7s or some similar tube, but the V8 coupled with this particular Piezo sounds Magnific! It can get resonant, but the simple (Baxandall I think) eq is actually really well suited and can (roll off the bass knob) gently cut a whole lot of that out.
Also...THe EAP maker says 4.7Mohm Imp is what the pickup needs...but changing the Imp is a subjective sound experience, an eq point. Having control of that choice isn't huge but, it is significant and useful.
Also...THe EAP maker says 4.7Mohm Imp is what the pickup needs...but changing the Imp is a subjective sound experience, an eq point. Having control of that choice isn't huge but, it is significant and useful.
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I'm already using another preamp so you're addressing the wrong question.
I want to know exactly what the signal boost range is on the Ehrlund preamp. In standard decibels format, not voltage. Supposedly it's the model for a "quality system" so I'd like to compare it to what I'm doing with a different preamp. For some reason they're keeping this information secret.
I can't find anything on the sensitivity or gain factor of the preamp. Also nothing on the output level of the pickup. Depending on your needs this spec may tell you everything you need to know: Output Voltage Max 2V
Per Convert dBm to dB conversion to volt mW voltage V dB dBu dBV dBm converter conversion and calculation analog audio milliwatt milliwatts kilowatt power level power watts convertor converter audio engineering sound recording - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin that 2V = 8.24 dBu, so that is a pretty hot line level signal.
If you want to use the Preamp with another pickup, I am pretty sure it has plenty of gain and a good S/N Ratio. If you already have the preamp, why not simply try it? There may be some proprietary voicing built into the preamp that is tailored to the EAP though. I.E. it may not be flat.
Thanks for all that, but it's a bit over my head. My question is simple: when the Ehrlund preamp volume is turned to 0, I presume it's amplifying the signal by nothing. When the volume knob is turned all the way up, how many dB's is that signal amplified? My Headway preamp max is 32dB gain, or about 2.5dB gain for each hash mark around the boost knob (+/- 40%).
The goal here is to try my Headway preamp exactly at the same boost level of the Ehrlund preamp -- to hear how it sounds in an "ideal" setting, according to Ehrlund's prose.
Such a basic question for a preamp! I'm astounded by the obscurity of information on this point.
I'm already using another preamp so you're addressing the wrong question.
All I can really say is it must have plenty of gain to produce a 2V output. The Ehrlund has enough juice to drive many pro power amps directly. I checked various amps I own.
Minimum Sensitivity Settings:
QSC PL236 1.16V at 8 ohmsQSC PL240 1.2V
QSC 3002 1.7V at 8 ohms
Crown PB1 0.775V
Crown PB2 0.775V
If you weed through the old EAP threads you'll find this analysis of the EAP's frequency response,
"I'm not aware that that's the case.
Edit-- Okay, I decided to find out! As it happens I have a gig tonight so my bass and rig are here at work. I took the Ehrlund pre into my lab. The picture below shows the spectrum of the Ehrlund pre between 0 Hz (DC) and 200 Hz with the switch set to "LOW." The vertical cursor is sitting at 20.5 Hz:
Note that the response is essentially flat down to below 20 Hz. I measured the response as being ruler flat up to at least 10 kHz. Changing to the "HIGH" setting increased the gain by [DEL]6[/DEL] 7.3 dB with no effect at all on the spectrum. There you have it, folks.
Now, unless there is a passive front-end filter designed to interact with the microphone itself, then there is no evidence of a high-pass roll-off anywhere near 40 Hz on either setting. I doubt there is such a passive filter."
"The spectral measurement I posted was created by feeding the pre-amp with a broadband Gaussian noise source. It is strictly a measure of what the pre-amp does. The microphone was not connected. The response does not reflect its properties. Believe me, the system would not be flat if the response of the transducer were included.
Yes, the "LOW/HIGH" switch simply sets the gain through the device. It's actually a change of 7.3 dB. It does not alter it's power spectrum (frequency response)."
This analysis was done by former TB member Durb.
"I'm not aware that that's the case.
Edit-- Okay, I decided to find out! As it happens I have a gig tonight so my bass and rig are here at work. I took the Ehrlund pre into my lab. The picture below shows the spectrum of the Ehrlund pre between 0 Hz (DC) and 200 Hz with the switch set to "LOW." The vertical cursor is sitting at 20.5 Hz:
Note that the response is essentially flat down to below 20 Hz. I measured the response as being ruler flat up to at least 10 kHz. Changing to the "HIGH" setting increased the gain by [DEL]6[/DEL] 7.3 dB with no effect at all on the spectrum. There you have it, folks.
Now, unless there is a passive front-end filter designed to interact with the microphone itself, then there is no evidence of a high-pass roll-off anywhere near 40 Hz on either setting. I doubt there is such a passive filter."
"The spectral measurement I posted was created by feeding the pre-amp with a broadband Gaussian noise source. It is strictly a measure of what the pre-amp does. The microphone was not connected. The response does not reflect its properties. Believe me, the system would not be flat if the response of the transducer were included.
Yes, the "LOW/HIGH" switch simply sets the gain through the device. It's actually a change of 7.3 dB. It does not alter it's power spectrum (frequency response)."
This analysis was done by former TB member Durb.
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Thank you! Interesting! So just to clarify: the Ehrlund preamp has two settings, low and high. It's unclear how much the low setting boosts the signal, right? And the high setting boosts the signal by 7.3dB above whatever the low boost is, right? It would be helpful to know what that low number is to get a sense of the true amount boosted on high in order to duplicate the scenario with a third-party preamp like Headway.
