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Electric Upright Bass
- Thread starter alder
- Start date
I don't know a whole lot about uprights, but I can tell you the ones I have played have a wider nut than 1.5". Also, I would worry about getting am even output volume out of a standard soapbar type flat pickup with a crazy tight radius on the fingerboard. I'll be following along to see what you end up with!
-Jake
-Jake
If you want a stick to play like an upright, this should work relatively well. I'd recommend switching to a split p-bass pickup that you can angle to match the tight radius.
The sound of an upright is a different thing. I don't think an electric pass pickup will ever get you there. String length is a big part of it, as well as the dampening of string vibrations. On an upright, a lot of the string vibration gets transferred to the top, which is then transferred to the back of the instrument via the soundpost. This causes more decay on the vibration of the string as the energy is sent elsewhere. The tailgut and tailpiece also have some affect on the upright sound. other factors are string action (higher action sounds more upright-like), plucking technique, left hand technique (fretting), and a few other things I'm no doubt forgetting or haven't yet noticed.
The sound of an upright is a different thing. I don't think an electric pass pickup will ever get you there. String length is a big part of it, as well as the dampening of string vibrations. On an upright, a lot of the string vibration gets transferred to the top, which is then transferred to the back of the instrument via the soundpost. This causes more decay on the vibration of the string as the energy is sent elsewhere. The tailgut and tailpiece also have some affect on the upright sound. other factors are string action (higher action sounds more upright-like), plucking technique, left hand technique (fretting), and a few other things I'm no doubt forgetting or haven't yet noticed.
Similar playing feel would be flatwounds, for sure, unless you are 110% sure on the no bow and go tapewounds. In my "I have similar but also not" thoughts relating to my poorly defined would-be project I think TI expensive FW bass guitar strings look like the best BG bet, at prices that look cheap compared to orchestral strings. Ball end to silk is listed at 39" for the "super-long" flavor per BSO.
Four lipsticks the long way might make for excessive magnetic damping - might not, that's just an enginerd guess. Piezo's seem to float the boat of folks looking for a more upright sound better, in most threads.
If you are going to match the radius, might as well make it bowable, you never know where you might go with it, and that's most of it, other than providing the clearance to the sides.
The recently posted aluminum and white plastic EUB on the UB LC may provide some food for thought, even if it's not quite what you want to do. The other recent one there I'm thinking of did not float my boat...
Four lipsticks the long way might make for excessive magnetic damping - might not, that's just an enginerd guess. Piezo's seem to float the boat of folks looking for a more upright sound better, in most threads.
If you are going to match the radius, might as well make it bowable, you never know where you might go with it, and that's most of it, other than providing the clearance to the sides.
The recently posted aluminum and white plastic EUB on the UB LC may provide some food for thought, even if it's not quite what you want to do. The other recent one there I'm thinking of did not float my boat...
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I have a thread up on my 34 inch scale EUB build. I missed by 5 hours my chance to order the cut sapele for delivery before Christmas, so it'll be mid January before I'll be able to photograph all the components and start a build diary. I have an initial TinkerCad model I can share. Check out my thread, or maybe there is value in combining them?
A different animal, surely, but I converted an acoustic guitar into a bass-like thing, with an "URB sound" being a stated goal.
I got a long way there by having a tailpiece to terminate the strings, using the saddle in the top, using flatwound bass strings, and raising the action an almost silly amount.
It gets pretty close to the sound if your technique is there.
Watching this for sure...
I got a long way there by having a tailpiece to terminate the strings, using the saddle in the top, using flatwound bass strings, and raising the action an almost silly amount.
It gets pretty close to the sound if your technique is there.
Watching this for sure...
I still haven't built it.
In terms of design I am still trying to work out how to do the magnetic pickup. I am going to see if a guitar pickup will work on my ABG, and if so I might use a humbucker with adjustable pole pieces, or put some very staggered pole pieces in another pickup I have in the parts bin, either a Telecaster guitar one or a spare jazz bass pickup.
I am still working on how to sort out the bridge too. I have a standard flat bridge I can just about adjust the saddles for to get the right curve, but it looks awkward. The original plan was to use ferrules (which I have), string through and overhang at the tail end and have a typical ABG type bridge with a piezo under, just with greater curvature, but having a more adjustable bridge appeals. So I am also considering if it is possible to use individual saddles per string placed on a shaped block, and then put that in a recess and mount a piezo or two under that, but that seems unlikely to work, so takes me back to the ABG option.
For the next few months a Les Paul build and rebuilding my Strat take priority.
That’s why people want to be anonymous....
I like that you’re using a very flat radius for your EUB. Much easier to work and I think it will play better. When a read your radii in your first post I thought no way. They seem way off of a DB to begin with. With your scales and plans you’re really making an UEB not a EUB if you follow me.
Great use of available material!
I think that the playing position alone will give you a much more upright bass sound as you’re plucking up onto the neck. Of course you could always just pluck up on the neck with a electric bass...
Tru bass 88’s would sound great for your purpose! Not sure about other tape wounds.
Tru bass 88’s would sound great for your purpose! Not sure about other tape wounds.
Brazilian cherry is way up there for hardness isn’t it? I was looking up Pau Ferro because I just made a DB fingerboard from it and I thought that cherry would be good as well.
Also it does make sense to have the fret positions marked. On an UB you have the neck heel that tells you when you’re at a D or Eb according to the neck. On your UEB you won’t have that.
Also it does make sense to have the fret positions marked. On an UB you have the neck heel that tells you when you’re at a D or Eb according to the neck. On your UEB you won’t have that.
I'm not quite ready to start mine as I have to complete a Les Paul with crazy wiring and a sustainer pickup as a gift by April. But I'll describe it pending tweaking the plans.
It is going to be, essentially, a sapele box. An overhang at the tail end will provide a location for ferrules to anchor the strings.
I need to mock up to check the neck can simply be an extension of the body (neck through) and still allow for bowing. The body will be barely wider than the widest part of the neck, so I am hoping that will be sufficient. If not, then it will need a block to mount the neck as a separate element with a back angle, glued in.
The fingerboard will be a maple 3/4 DB fingerboard, mated to the neck by adding extra fillets on top of the neck under it. It will be stained. There will be a simple wooden nut and then three standard bass tuners in a 2+2 arrangement. In the neck, before adding the fillets, I will add two carbon fibre rods, expoxied into channels. This, plus the composite construction, I am hoping will obviate the need for a truss rod. I will need to cast the inside of the fingerboard in plaster so I can ensure I have the right shape initially before presenting a slightly oversized neck to the fingerboard and gradually shaving the last bits off until it fits and then gluing it in place.
The bridge will need to be raised. I am still working on how exactly to achieve the saddle. The simplest is to create an ABG like bridge and saddle, but built up from sections to avoid the need for accurate routing so I can be sure the piezo will be well bedded. The piezo will go directly out, no controls on the bass, to a behringer ADI21.
There will be a magnetic pickup, but I am still trying to work out the best option. The jazz bridge pickup I was going to try with extreme stagger pole pieces I broke the wire on (bare coil, no tape, lesson learned). Either way, that goes directly out too, no controls unless I add volume maybe.
There will be an endpin, which is part of the decision to avoid electronics in the hollow interior.
The very end cap will be unscrewable for maintenance. Not that there will be much space, just enough to get the wires to the jacks either side of the endpin, taped down to avoid fouling of the endpin.
Joints will be reinforced with battens, but 45 degree chamfered on the external face to make them pretty much invisible. I can't screw and glue all joints. I will have to also build a jig to ensure everything is square, and the 'neck through' construction will make it tricky to balance it in a jig.
At some point I will need a gig bag, which will be interesting, but it should fit in an ABG case, if with a lot of space.
I was just lazy to type Brazilian again. Interesting to know though.
I have a poplar jazz bass and I love it as a tone wood.
One extra point is that the pickup, once I've stopped wrecking the coils changing pole pieces, I hope to be able to enclose in a wood veneered curved cover with a radius to match the radius of the neck. This will make the pickup continuous with the neck, which should look nice. If so, then I will radius the bridge blocks too, with a similar effect.
The bridge, assuming I go for the ABG saddle as intended, I'll create out of a base block for the required height and then four blocks around that, routed to conceal the centre block, to create the saddle slot as then I can assure I get a good flat base for the piezo.
There's plenty to go wrong as this is my first build and woodwork is not my forte, so I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible.
The headstock will be flat like a Fender, but without the dogleg, i.e. totally flat as the thickness of the fingerboard should be sufficient to give enough break angle on a 2+2 headstock, with straight though pull to standard tuners. To give enough wood for this it won't be totally symmetrical.
Yes, it's tricky with more like a four inch radius. I'll be testing some options with various pickups. If needs be I might have to build one, but I'd prefer to avoid that. I could make a quad coil, but it's a lot less winding to make a single pickup with staggered pole pieces if possible. I'll double check my document on potential heights required and whether they were available as Alnico slugs, which simplifies it compared to also using a magnet on the rear, although I have spares of those should I go with a ceramic and not magnetic slugs.
I do have a pair of Strat rails I was going to rework on of to a sustainer pickup, but I might just get bobbins and make one from scratch in the end. If you are local you are welcome to them for cost as I doubt I will use them and I have a lot of pickups and parts so thinning them out might make sense. But then maybe the two strat pickups are the better EUB solution, if I can hide the nature using a single cover. I'll form that by thinly slicing sections of the fingerboard (I have to reduce the length to fit it on the bass length, to create formers for the veneer.
If my headstock break angle is not enough I have a four string retainer bar.
Your bridge design intrigues me, and I have a Les Paul tail piece and bridge and the fittings in the part box, so I could do something similar with height adjustment. However, I think I'd rather avoid that additional complexity. Height I can adjust by sanding the saddle to fit, as long as I haven't made the slot too deep.
Given the thickness of the wood I am using for the body an under saddle piezo is my only option, although I will be trialing a disc piezo on an acoustic guitar with an adjustable saddle which probably won't suit an under saddle unit. Having tried a piezo on a shamisen I know that wood that thick (and the EUB will be similar) won't work. Whilst it's not a solid body, the wood is thick enough that it's not an acoustic instrument, but rather it reduces weight and provides an easier way to wire things up and somewhere for the end pin to retract into.
Given the thickness of the wood I am using for the body an under saddle piezo is my only option, although I will be trialing a disc piezo on an acoustic guitar with an adjustable saddle which probably won't suit an under saddle unit. Having tried a piezo on a shamisen I know that wood that thick (and the EUB will be similar) won't work. Whilst it's not a solid body, the wood is thick enough that it's not an acoustic instrument, but rather it reduces weight and provides an easier way to wire things up and somewhere for the end pin to retract into.
