entitled band leaders?

[gln1955]

Just remembered two:

Last spring I answered an ad on Craigslist needing a drummer. I replied with demo videos and he said he could tell I was a pro and offered two gigs - first was a private event for only $125. The second was a jazz gig and I haven't played much jazz in years (studied it in school) and figured it'd be a good gig if I could record it and maybe get more jazz gigs down the road.

Well I get sent the song list and it's pretty simple. There are a few songs I never heard before so I listen, do simple reminder charts the week of the gig and show up having never met the band or doing any rehearsals.

I get to the gig and everyone is nice. The BL has to be 70 or so and in pretty bad health. The bass player is apparently good friends with the BL and has a really nice 6 string bass (Roscoe maybe?). He's not very friendly and I suspect he's just a jazz snob looking down at me. I ask if I can set up my video camera and he hesitates but said yeah no problem.

When I first got there the BL tells me he might have another gig. But it's 1.5 hours away, the pay is $125, and it's a 5k race and I'd need to be there by 6:00am. I just met the guy so I tell him let me think about it.

I do the gig. Holly mackerel. Bassist can hardly play. BL sings horribly out of key (but is a decent enough guitar player). There are also two female background singers who are so nice but I could tell scared to be friendly - I realize now they know I'm not going to be there long. Also a horn player who I barely noticed was there.
It's pretty bad overall but I did a great job. BL says I was "the best drummer he ever worked with". I'm handed an old school check and leave.

I get home and discuss the mess I encountered with my wife. She says don't do the 6:00am gig. I say I want the jazz gig… but she's right. I'm not going to be blackmailed. So the next day I politely email him and say I considered the 6:00am gig but that's just a little too early for me and with the drive I'd need to be up at 4:30. I also asked for the songs for the jazz gig.

So in response I get a terse email simply saying something like "your services will no longer be needed" and said I do not have his permission to put the video up online!

I didn't even reply. I saw an add up a week later on Craigslist making the blackmail clear - the post said two gigs and you had to do the first to do the second and you won't get paid until you complete both. I can't imagine he ever found anyone. I saw another ad a few months later looking for someone for a gig 3 hours away the next day for the same $, but oh, someone is driving the whole band up so it's not too bad. I responded to that one asking if it was the same guy and never heard back.

In the end I eventually went through the video and I did indeed nail it. I was able to cobble together a decent promo video out of it but I keep it private and only send it out for bands that seem similar and only when they specifically ask for samples - I actually have a lot of better videos now so I haven't needed it this year.

What a strange strange gig. I believe the BL said he used to work up and down the east coast with Bill Haley, so maybe he was more like 80. I wouldn't be surprised. His pay seems rich by those standards but completely out of line with today. And he must have used up and spit out every good player in the area. I have to imagine by now he's stopped working.

I'll talk about the other one when I get the chance.

You're probably lucky he didn't put a stop payment on your check.

 

[LBS-bass]

Just remembered two:

Last spring I answered an ad on Craigslist needing a drummer. I replied with demo videos and he said he could tell I was a pro and offered two gigs - first was a private event for only $125. The second was a jazz gig and I haven't played much jazz in years (studied it in school) and figured it'd be a good gig if I could record it and maybe get more jazz gigs down the road.

Well I get sent the song list and it's pretty simple. There are a few songs I never heard before so I listen, do simple reminder charts the week of the gig and show up having never met the band or doing any rehearsals.

I get to the gig and everyone is nice. The BL has to be 70 or so and in pretty bad health. The bass player is apparently good friends with the BL and has a really nice 6 string bass (Roscoe maybe?). He's not very friendly and I suspect he's just a jazz snob looking down at me. I ask if I can set up my video camera and he hesitates but said yeah no problem.

When I first got there the BL tells me he might have another gig. But it's 1.5 hours away, the pay is $125, and it's a 5k race and I'd need to be there by 6:00am. I just met the guy so I tell him let me think about it.

I do the gig. Holly mackerel. Bassist can hardly play. BL sings horribly out of key (but is a decent enough guitar player). There are also two female background singers who are so nice but I could tell scared to be friendly - I realize now they know I'm not going to be there long. Also a horn player who I barely noticed was there.
It's pretty bad overall but I did a great job. BL says I was "the best drummer he ever worked with". I'm handed an old school check and leave.

I get home and discuss the mess I encountered with my wife. She says don't do the 6:00am gig. I say I want the jazz gig… but she's right. I'm not going to be blackmailed. So the next day I politely email him and say I considered the 6:00am gig but that's just a little too early for me and with the drive I'd need to be up at 4:30. I also asked for the songs for the jazz gig.

So in response I get a terse email simply saying something like "your services will no longer be needed" and said I do not have his permission to put the video up online!

I didn't even reply. I saw an add up a week later on Craigslist making the blackmail clear - the post said two gigs and you had to do the first to do the second and you won't get paid until you complete both. I can't imagine he ever found anyone. I saw another ad a few months later looking for someone for a gig 3 hours away the next day for the same $, but oh, someone is driving the whole band up so it's not too bad. I responded to that one asking if it was the same guy and never heard back.

In the end I eventually went through the video and I did indeed nail it. I was able to cobble together a decent promo video out of it but I keep it private and only send it out for bands that seem similar and only when they specifically ask for samples - I actually have a lot of better videos now so I haven't needed it this year.

What a strange strange gig. I believe the BL said he used to work up and down the east coast with Bill Haley, so maybe he was more like 80. I wouldn't be surprised. His pay seems rich by those standards but completely out of line with today. And he must have used up and spit out every good player in the area. I have to imagine by now he's stopped working.

I'll talk about the other one when I get the chance.

You can put videos up in unlisted or private mode on YouTube which means nobody can see them unless they either 1) have the link (unlisted) or 2) have been invited to view the link via email (private). There is no reason you can't use his precious video, just send a private link to anyone who you'd like to promote yourself to.

 

[LBS-bass]

Does it count if it's someone trying to become a BL? My last guitarist is bad enough to work with that he's had several threads already. Here's some of his behaviour:

Selling a multi fx that I'd bought;
Pawning an amp that wasn't his;
Booking a gig but not telling the band about it for two months;
Doing jam nights by twiddling as fast as he can to someone else's songs and whilst they're singing. It's by luck if he's in the right key;
Posting videos of himself jamming to someone, again in the wrong key, to the wrong beat and at the wrong speed;
Getting angry when pulled up for unacceptable behaviour;
Posting a demo with songs that weren't the agreed demo songs. Instead of the two written and sung by him and two written and sung by me, he sent four of his and under his own name. The rest of us were named as 'also played';
Introducing me, one of the two lead singers and founding member of the band, as his bass player;
Doesn't 'want to learn open chords'. He left my band after I wrote a song with three chords that weren't barre chords and needed him to learn a simple scale shape. He wanted to play it two frets down from what the key needed and wanted to play only three of the notes - as fast as he could.

His videos don't seem to get comments any more, and he's wellknown for self-indulgent, off-key playing. I can't see any band with him in it getting far.

I strongly recommend learning to let go of your obsession with this guy.

I've been wronged by many people in my life - I get it; it's painful, but ultimately they only have power over you if you continue to cling to these memories. The people who have hurt me don't deserve that power so I don't give it to them. You are in control here. Not guitar guy. Time to let it go.

I know grown adults who are still bitter over the kids that beat them up in elementary school. What an awful thing to carry around with you. Those kids probably ended up in jail. Whatever they did, they got back plenty. They either ended up in a bad way or they recognized what was driving that behavior and became better people.

That's what we all should do. Learn from our experiences. There's no need to let those old memories color our present circumstances in a way that drags us down.

 

[Core Creek]

Oh

You can put videos up in unlisted or private mode on YouTube which means nobody can see them unless they either 1) have the link (unlisted) or 2) have been invited to view the link via email (private). There is no reason you can't use his precious video, just send a private link to anyone who you'd like to promote yourself to.

Oh yeah, I have it listed as "unlisted". You're right about his "precious" video - what does he think I'm going to do with it? All it really does is show how horrible the band was!

 

[themickster]

I strongly recommend learning to let go of your obsession with this guy.

I've been wronged by many people in my life - I get it; it's painful, but ultimately they only have power over you of you continue to cling to these memories. The people who have hurt me don't deserve that power so I don't give it to them. You are in control here. Not guitar guy. Time to let it go.

I know grown adults who are still bitter over the kids that beat them up in elementary school. What an awful thing to carry around with you. Those kids probably ended up in jail. Whatever they did, they got back plenty. They either ended up in a bad way or they recognized what was driving that behavior and became better people.

That's what we all should do. Learn from our experiences. There's no need to let those old memories color our present circumstances in a way that drags us down.

Thank you. I mean it.

 

[BucketOfFish]

I strongly recommend learning to let go of your obsession with this guy.

I've been wronged by many people in my life - I get it; it's painful, but ultimately they only have power over you of you continue to cling to these memories. The people who have hurt me don't deserve that power so I don't give it to them. You are in control here. Not guitar guy. Time to let it go.

I know grown adults who are still bitter over the kids that beat them up in elementary school. What an awful thing to carry around with you. Those kids probably ended up in jail. Whatever they did, they got back plenty. They either ended up in a bad way or they recognized what was driving that behavior and became better people.

That's what we all should do. Learn from our experiences. There's no need to let those old memories color our present circumstances in a way that drags us down.

Meanwhile, as we stew over the wrongs we suffer, we "take the poison and expect the other person to die".
What really pours gas on the fire is when we realize the perpetrators are sleeping like a baby.

 

[Shoreline Gold]

Meanwhile, as we stew over the wrongs we suffer, we "take the poison and expect the other person to die".
What really pours gas on the fire is when we realize the perpetrators are sleeping like a baby.

One of my favorite life philosophies. I am a member of an organization that shall remain anonymous (), and that is the common refrain about resentments. One of my life's goals is to let as many of them go as possible before I reach the end of the line.

 

[LBS-bass]

One of my favorite life philosophies. I am a member of an organization that shall remain anonymous (), and that is the common refrain about resentments. One of my life's goals is to let as many of them go as possible before I reach the end of the line.

It can be tricky. The story I shared in this thread is a good example - it was hard for me to dampen my anger and hurt over this particular betrayal, in part because it had so many moving parts and I knew it would have a cost to me in terms of the character assassination that would surely follow. I wasn't wrong about any of that, but I also know that people who take the word and advice of a scoundrel are not people I want to do business with. If that's what I need to do to rise to the top here, then I'm happy staying in the middle. They can live in a plastic world where they continue to fool each other and I don't need to live there.

So there was a period of time during which I really had to process all of that. But processing is what I'm good at, I guess, because I'm far beyond it now, and I'm happier than ever with the things and the high-quality people that remain in my world.

 

[Shoreline Gold]

It can be tricky. The story I shared in this thread is a good example - it was hard for me to dampen my anger and hurt over this particular betrayal, in part because it had so many moving parts and I knew it would have a cost to me in terms of the character assassination that would surely follow. I wasn't wrong about any of that, but I also know that people who take the word and advice of a scoundrel are not people I want to do business with. If that's what I need to do to rise to the top here, then I'm happy staying in the middle. They can live in a plastic world where they continue to fool each other and I don't need to live there.

So there was a period of time during which I really had to process all of that. But processing is what I'm good at, I guess, because I'm far beyond it now, and I'm happier than ever with the things and the high-quality people that remain in my world.

And the fact that you've thought about this so deeply speaks well of you. I didn't mean to suggest it was easy.

And I still carry resentments of many slights, small and big, personal and professional. Like you just described, there are always insights to be gained by working through them and understanding the consequences of doing or not doing something about them. At least that's what my experience has been. I've got a long list to process, myself.

And to return to the OP's original point, I have a particular antipathy towards entitled band leaders. Myself, I usually vote with my feet when the reality sets in.

 

[Parzival]

Went and tried out for a wedding band a while back. The people were not very personable to start with. Decent players. Guitar player next to me about deafened me. Drummer was the hardest drummer to hear ever. Had electronic kit turned way down. We played and all the songs went fine. They didn't say much to me when I left, just some thanks for coming stuff.
BL calls me a couple of days later and says he thought I was a great player then spent about 15 min nitpicking me. Little too loud (see guitarist comment above), play too much, we like to keep it note for note. Ok, no big deal, that's fine. He finishes saying he liked me and if I could take what he said they would be considering me and would let me know. I told him that's ok I don't want the gig. He was shocked and just said ok and got off the phone.
He calls me back 30 min later and asked if I was serious as he was going to give me the gig and I was the guy they wanted. I said no thanks. He said he was really surprised and couldn't believe it. Oh well.

 

[LBS-bass]

Went and tried out for a wedding band a while back. The people were not very personable to start with. Decent players. Guitar player next to me about deafened me. Drummer was the hardest drummer to hear ever. Had electronic kit turned way down. We played and all the songs went fine. They didn't say much to me when I left, just some thanks for coming stuff.
BL calls me a couple of days later and says he thought I was a great player then spent about 15 min nitpicking me. Little too loud (see guitarist comment above), play too much, we like to keep it note for note. Ok, no big deal, that's fine. He finishes saying he liked me and if I could take what he said they would be considering me and would let me know. I told him that's ok I don't want the gig. He was shocked and just said ok and got off the phone.
He calls me back 30 min later and asked if I was serious as he was going to give me the gig and I was the guy they wanted. I said no thanks. He said he was really surprised and couldn't believe it. Oh well.

I love this. They can't believe you don't want their crappy gig where all they'll let you do is paint by numbers and they'll nag you to insanity over something horribly unfulfilling. LOL.

 

[Sam Evans]

I love this. They can't believe you don't want their crappy gig where all they'll let you do is paint by numbers and they'll nag you to insanity over something horribly unfulfilling. LOL.

Especially the part where they had already decided but "we'll let you know" ...

 

[Parzival]

I love this. They can't believe you don't want their crappy gig where all they'll let you do is paint by numbers and they'll nag you to insanity over something horribly unfulfilling. LOL.

Forgot to add, I ended up later joining another event/wedding band later. The BL knew that BL and said he had talked to him about me and was laughing because the guy was still talking about how he couldn't believe I didn't join up with them.

 

[Parzival]

Especially the part where they had already decided but "we'll let you know" ...

I know.

 

[Shoreline Gold]

Of course, I also tend towards the attitude of (with apologies to Groucho) "I wouldn't join a band that would have me as a member."

 

[ijump206]

Like Nancy aways said "Just Say No".

But it was easy for Nancy to say that, since she never got asked.

I am now picturing Nancy Reagan holding down the groove in what I assume to be a late 70's funk band. P-bass, Sunburst, tort guard, flats, SVT into an 8*10.

 

[3toes]

I told him that's ok I don't want the gig. He was shocked and just said ok and got off the phone.
He calls me back 30 min later and asked if I was serious as he was going to give me the gig and I was the guy they wanted. I said no thanks. He said he was really surprised and couldn't believe it. Oh well.

It's so funny that they don't realize that the audition goes both ways... You're not just auditioning for the band, the band is auditioning for you too!

 

[themickster]

It's so funny that they don't realize that the audition goes both ways... You're not just auditioning for the band, the band is auditioning for you too!

I auditioned for a drummer and guitarist. The drummer was late and went straight back outside for a smoke. He came in at least 20 minutes later. We started on one of their instrumentals, which meant the guitarist twiddling without any tune for 10 minutes. I started my 12 bar. The guitarist twiddled all the way through - not one chord, not even whilst I sang the verses and choruses. We then improvised an instrumental. He twiddled all the way through. I left.

A few weeks later, a friend rang. He'd been asked to audition for them. I told him about the twiddling all the way through my singing. He said 'He's an idiot, then. I won't bother'.

 

[Core Creek]

Just remembered two:

Last spring I answered an ad on Craigslist needing a drummer. I replied with demo videos and he said he could tell I was a pro and offered two gigs - first was a private event for only $125. The second was a jazz gig and I haven't played much jazz in years (studied it in school) and figured it'd be a good gig if I could record it and maybe get more jazz gigs down the road.

Well I get sent the song list and it's pretty simple. There are a few songs I never heard before so I listen, do simple reminder charts the week of the gig and show up having never met the band or doing any rehearsals.

I get to the gig and everyone is nice. The BL has to be 70 or so and in pretty bad health. The bass player is apparently good friends with the BL and has a really nice 6 string bass (Roscoe maybe?). He's not very friendly and I suspect he's just a jazz snob looking down at me. I ask if I can set up my video camera and he hesitates but said yeah no problem.

When I first got there the BL tells me he might have another gig. But it's 1.5 hours away, the pay is $125, and it's a 5k race and I'd need to be there by 6:00am. I just met the guy so I tell him let me think about it.

I do the gig. Holly mackerel. Bassist can hardly play. BL sings horribly out of key (but is a decent enough guitar player). There are also two female background singers who are so nice but I could tell scared to be friendly - I realize now they know I'm not going to be there long. Also a horn player who I barely noticed was there.
It's pretty bad overall but I did a great job. BL says I was "the best drummer he ever worked with". I'm handed an old school check and leave.

I get home and discuss the mess I encountered with my wife. She says don't do the 6:00am gig. I say I want the jazz gig… but she's right. I'm not going to be blackmailed. So the next day I politely email him and say I considered the 6:00am gig but that's just a little too early for me and with the drive I'd need to be up at 4:30. I also asked for the songs for the jazz gig.

So in response I get a terse email simply saying something like "your services will no longer be needed" and said I do not have his permission to put the video up online!

I didn't even reply. I saw an add up a week later on Craigslist making the blackmail clear - the post said two gigs and you had to do the first to do the second and you won't get paid until you complete both. I can't imagine he ever found anyone. I saw another ad a few months later looking for someone for a gig 3 hours away the next day for the same $, but oh, someone is driving the whole band up so it's not too bad. I responded to that one asking if it was the same guy and never heard back.

In the end I eventually went through the video and I did indeed nail it. I was able to cobble together a decent promo video out of it but I keep it private and only send it out for bands that seem similar and only when they specifically ask for samples - I actually have a lot of better videos now so I haven't needed it this year.

What a strange strange gig. I believe the BL said he used to work up and down the east coast with Bill Haley, so maybe he was more like 80. I wouldn't be surprised. His pay seems rich by those standards but completely out of line with today. And he must have used up and spit out every good player in the area. I have to imagine by now he's stopped working.

I'll talk about the other one when I get the chance.

Speak of the devil… noticed they just posted again. I'm pretty sure most of these photos are 20-30 years old.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[3toes]

Speak of the devil… noticed they just posted again. I'm pretty sure most of these photos are 20-30 years old.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

This is just flat out laughable. BL wants working-band-level commitment, but isn't willing to put in any effort as a leader beyond a hobbyist's level.