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This discussion has become timely to me. I went into a guitar shop in my little village of approx 8000 people today looking for a new nut for my P-bass. They had a wall of Squier guitars and basses, some less than $200. The owner told me that her husband dresses the frets and sets up ALL of the instruments that they sell. I played a few guitars and sure enough darn things played great. I think that I know where I'm going to be buying my next entry level guitar or bass. BTW, I have guitars and basses ranging from MIM Fender basses to Gibson Les Pauls and a Advanced Jumbo.
Ok I'm 58 years old I have had countess basses in my day in my opinion today's cheep basses 100-300$ range are the 400-600 doller basses of yesterdayThis debate comes up frequently. In my opinion there is a definite limit to which you cannot go below and expect a useable instrument. The Rondo basses may be the exception to the rule. Fortunately that limit is rather embarrassingly low. If you cannot come up with $250, then Rondo is your only reliable hope for new basses.I have two of the upper level Squiers and can find no fault with either of them.
Even a cheap Chinese jazz clone I bought almost 20 years ago still has the original pots,tuners and wiring. I’ve never ever had any problems with a tuner or bridge.
Would you want to chance playing in front of 20,000 people with one?, probably not. But for learning at home, no problem.
I think you may be right!
Back in 1982 in Madrid, you could buy a new cheap electric guitar for around £100 of today's money. Today £119 buys you something that I've been happy to gig with and record, with nothing but the usual setup/adjustments I do to any new instrument. The guitar I could get for £100 in those days was terrible. Further more... that was it... there was nothing between that and the likes of Fender and Gibson which were a lot more expensive, the cheapest would be about 6x more expensive, certainly out of the range of a 14 year old.
I remember when I saw the first Ibanez, squeezing into the gap, closer to £200-250, but not that different in quality from the £600 Fender I was dreaming of, and about 100x better than anything else below that price.
Entry Level .... only has a 'negative ' connotation if you give it one ..! Entry means just that ..! welcome , come on in , the water is fine ..! please start in the shallow end ...
let me reminisce ... we all start with something .! my first piano - giant , heavy , well used, not to expensive upright piano = worked fine .! ( 2nd piano - Yamaha studio upright - yeh , i practiced and got pretty good .! ) first learner guitar - 1957 Gibson ES-225T ( long gone = whoops ) first bass - 1969 Hagstrom 8 string, made in Sweden ( long gone again = whoops ) both of these instruments where used and cost around $125 in the early 70's ..
i could go on and on , as i play many instrument pretty well ( starting at 6 , now 60 )
these days , i have no excuse for parents buying their kids a POS ..! ( unless they're just trying to Shut them up ..!? ) with the internet , doing basic research is very simple ..! i do agree with not throwing a bunch of money at something that might not go anywhere . Not all folks have what it takes to ' practice ' or any musical aptitude . Which is a good thing for the rest of us that do ..! = used gear
if someone is an adult ... they can start with whatever cost of instrument they might want ... that choice will not make them learn any faster , or slower .. hopefully , again , i hope they buy stuff New = more used stuff for us ..!!
let me reminisce ... we all start with something .! my first piano - giant , heavy , well used, not to expensive upright piano = worked fine .! ( 2nd piano - Yamaha studio upright - yeh , i practiced and got pretty good .! ) first learner guitar - 1957 Gibson ES-225T ( long gone = whoops ) first bass - 1969 Hagstrom 8 string, made in Sweden ( long gone again = whoops ) both of these instruments where used and cost around $125 in the early 70's ..
i could go on and on , as i play many instrument pretty well ( starting at 6 , now 60 )
these days , i have no excuse for parents buying their kids a POS ..! ( unless they're just trying to Shut them up ..!? ) with the internet , doing basic research is very simple ..! i do agree with not throwing a bunch of money at something that might not go anywhere . Not all folks have what it takes to ' practice ' or any musical aptitude . Which is a good thing for the rest of us that do ..! = used gear
if someone is an adult ... they can start with whatever cost of instrument they might want ... that choice will not make them learn any faster , or slower .. hopefully , again , i hope they buy stuff New = more used stuff for us ..!!
I bought a used, beat-up "entry-level" bass--a Squier Affinity P-bass--for $50 at a pawn shop, because I already played guitar and thought it would be fun to own a bass and learn to play one a little.
I haven't changed the used stock electronic guts at all, and I've been dinking around with it happily for ten years now...in fact, I play more bass than guitar these days and love it. I'm happy with it and don't feel a need to upgrade its internals, or upgrade to a more expensive bass. It does what I need and I like how it sounds and plays.
I haven't changed the used stock electronic guts at all, and I've been dinking around with it happily for ten years now...in fact, I play more bass than guitar these days and love it. I'm happy with it and don't feel a need to upgrade its internals, or upgrade to a more expensive bass. It does what I need and I like how it sounds and plays.
I like snatching up supposedly entry level instruments and upgrading them into a serious player.
Case in point, bought an Affinity P (CL $80), gigbag to get her home (GC $20), swapped stock pup for Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound (TB classifieds, $40), changed cracked single ply PG for a Fender MIA red tortoise unit $15), added rosewood thumb rest ($10), replaced bridge plate with flaking chrome with a better used one ($10) and strung with La Bella tapes ($35).
All in I'm at about 2 bills, and it looks, plays and sounds like a bass 3-4 times as much.
Case in point, bought an Affinity P (CL $80), gigbag to get her home (GC $20), swapped stock pup for Seymour Duncan Quarter Pound (TB classifieds, $40), changed cracked single ply PG for a Fender MIA red tortoise unit $15), added rosewood thumb rest ($10), replaced bridge plate with flaking chrome with a better used one ($10) and strung with La Bella tapes ($35).
All in I'm at about 2 bills, and it looks, plays and sounds like a bass 3-4 times as much.
- Oct 18, 2012
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- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
I am an admitted gear snob. I prefer my MIA Fender, Alembic and Spector basses over anything else. However, I also know that today's entry level basses play and sound better than some moderate to higher level basses from the 70s and 80s. I don't find the term "entry level" offensive. It's pretty accurate. Lower quality parts and workmanship but that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have a good sound or play well. If you are a beginner, you should buy an "entry level" bass. That way if you decide you don't want to play, you can sell it without losing a lot of money. If you buy a bass for $300 and don't want to play anymore, you can probably sell it for $150 to $200. That's better than spending $1,500 and then selling for $800 to $1,000. I've always said that you should buy what you like and can afford and not worry about what anybody else says. If you buy an "entry level" bass and are happy with it, why worry if it's been referred to as "entry level". Just enjoy playing it.
My 11-yr. old grandson just got a Squier by Fender kit for Christmas. It includes a black Squier PJ bass and a Fender Rumble 15, which is all he needs for home-practice. I was impressed with the bass. It's very nicely made with great fit and finish and it sounds really good. I was surprised at the neck because it seems to be as wide as a p-bass but is no where near as thick as the ones I've seen. It's almost as thin as my Jazz and it took me 10-years to find a Jazz with that thin, fast neck. This is an "entry-level bass" that I wouldn't hesitate to gig with if I needed to. I think he scored big time!
Entry level is great! I'm not a pro, nor will I ever be. I take bass performance lessons and have happily done it using an Ibanez GSR200, Squier Mustang, Yamaha BB1000MA, Peavey Millennium 5 and most recently an ESP LTD B5-JR. Total investment about $500. The Ibanez and the Peavy are gone, traded for what I have now. Once I get the BB back, loaned to friend, the remaining are probably going to get traded for a Yamaha BB735A.
I only take lessons (instrument and performance) and will never play to make money (that's why I have a day job) but will play for fun and I only really need one bass. I want it to be a nicer bass and I think the 735 fills that role (or maybe a used 55-01/02). Like another poster said, I'm older and have the money to get what I want. I'm just not going to go nuts.
In reality, the LTD works just fine and has a good sound. The guys that I play with are pros and are amused with looks and fine with it's sound! Plus it's super easy to transport and move around with on stage.
I only take lessons (instrument and performance) and will never play to make money (that's why I have a day job) but will play for fun and I only really need one bass. I want it to be a nicer bass and I think the 735 fills that role (or maybe a used 55-01/02). Like another poster said, I'm older and have the money to get what I want. I'm just not going to go nuts.
In reality, the LTD works just fine and has a good sound. The guys that I play with are pros and are amused with looks and fine with it's sound! Plus it's super easy to transport and move around with on stage.
If the player of any instrument (bass, guitar, drums, piano, saxophone, oboe, violin, you name it...) plays a "pro-level" instrument for a few minutes then picks up a "student/entry level" instrument and cannot feel the difference then they are without doubt an entry level player.
I understand that. And that is why so many players will say, "I have an entry level (fill in the blank) instrument and it is every bit as good as a pro-level model. Sound and feels the same to me".
I don't want to sound like a snob (although I probably am) but it takes a certain level of experience and sophistication to discern the difference in quality.
I understand that. And that is why so many players will say, "I have an entry level (fill in the blank) instrument and it is every bit as good as a pro-level model. Sound and feels the same to me".
I don't want to sound like a snob (although I probably am) but it takes a certain level of experience and sophistication to discern the difference in quality.
I dont know anybody who is pleking a $275 instrument..just makes no sense..albums are punched out all the time by great musicians who dont have pleked instruments..they just play and control the instrument with their fingers..pleking is a state of mind for a limited few..play the instrument before you buy..if you "THINK" it needs pleking..you probably dont really know and are only guessing..then put the instrument back down and look for something else..
Look on the bright side. An "entry level" tennis racket is either a heap of crud that makes you even more laughable than you already are (no, sorry, that's a cheap tennis racket) or is MORE expensive to make because of the need to increase the sweet spot and generally get the ball back despite how you've just hit it.
As many have said, today's entry-level basses are light years beyond what I started with and my (right-handed) son had to physically stop me getting all GASsy, buying him those tasty Indonesian Squiers (Mike Dirnt, VM P TB) and tweaking them. I've been to a bass meet and met "gear snobs" and they're nice people, excellent players who appreciate what they've got. I have more in common with players talking about how a pupgrade made a good-value bass brilliant but the two types aren't automatically heading in opposite directions come the rapture.
As many have said, today's entry-level basses are light years beyond what I started with and my (right-handed) son had to physically stop me getting all GASsy, buying him those tasty Indonesian Squiers (Mike Dirnt, VM P TB) and tweaking them. I've been to a bass meet and met "gear snobs" and they're nice people, excellent players who appreciate what they've got. I have more in common with players talking about how a pupgrade made a good-value bass brilliant but the two types aren't automatically heading in opposite directions come the rapture.
My advice to any beginner is that if your bass is playable, and sounds alright, concentrate on learning music and playing with others. Looking back, I worried about gear way too much when I should have been learning my fingerboard and the circle of fifths, among other things.
Yes indeed. That pretty much nails 'snobby' for me.
But you left out breeding, the schools you've attended, and your title which I I'm guessing you also have.
Was that an oversight? Or were you just attempting a token gesture towards modesty by leaving them out?
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Yes indeed. Sounds pretty snobby to me.
But you left out breeding, the schools you've attended, and your title which I I'm guessing you also have.
Was that an oversight? Or were you just attempting a token gesture towards modesty by leaving them out?
Well this whole topic just seems so silly.
It would be like someone saying, "Yeah, I have a Mazda Miata Roadster and it is almost as well built and performs almost as well as a Ferrari. They are both red and have two seats. I don't know why they say that the Miata is an entry level race car".
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