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Equalization

#21
WayneP said:
You might try to borrow or rent a multi-track sound card or A/D converter and see if you can make a recording of your church band with a program like Cubase. You can tap the signal for each channel from the mixing console from the Insert jack: A standard mono ¼” cable inserted to the first click will get you an audio send from that channel. Once you have the multi-track recording, you can play with it to your heart’s content. :)

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
Click to expand...

We actually have all of the equipment necessary to record the whole band. So I actually emailed the worship leader if I could have permission to take a recording of our team home and mess with the EQ for a while. I think it would be a good learning experience for me.

The only problem I can think of is that all the songs we play are covers of worship songs by people like Hillsong. I may not be allowed to record our team playing those songs and take the recording home with me, so I asked. If I can't, then I'll just have to find the time to do it at the church.

Another thing I want to do is try to EQ the room a little better. Our previous lead sound tech did a quick and dirty EQ of the room when we first set up the sound system, but I'm not sure if that's adequate. I downloaded a track of some "pink noise" and I'm going to play that through the mains and see if I can use a real time analyzer to see what things look like on the frequency spectrum. I just need to find a good real time analyzer. The board has one built in, but I think that only measures the frequencies going out of the board, not the ones bouncing around the room (it'd need a mic that could pick that up in order to measure that, right?)
 
#22
KingRazor said:
We actually have all of the equipment necessary to record the whole band. So I actually emailed the worship leader if I could have permission to take a recording of our team home and mess with the EQ for a while. I think it would be a good learning experience for me.

The only problem I can think of is that all the songs we play are covers of worship songs by people like Hillsong. I may not be allowed to record our team playing those songs and take the recording home with me, so I asked. If I can't, then I'll just have to find the time to do it at the church.

Another thing I want to do is try to EQ the room a little better. Our previous lead sound tech did a quick and dirty EQ of the room when we first set up the sound system, but I'm not sure if that's adequate. I downloaded a track of some "pink noise" and I'm going to play that through the mains and see if I can use a real time analyzer to see what things look like on the frequency spectrum. I just need to find a good real time analyzer. The board has one built in, but I think that only measures the frequencies going out of the board, not the ones bouncing around the room (it'd need a mic that could pick that up in order to measure that, right?)
Click to expand...

In my experience, most EQ'ing is to compensate for room acoustics. Outside, I run pretty much flat. I love playing, running sound, and recording outside.

You can get a pink noise generator and RTA in a single unit with a calibrated flat microphone fairly inexpensively. In dealing with highly reflective boomy rooms like churches they are worth the expense.
 
#24
WayneP said:
You can get the Room EQ Wizard freeware at the Home Theater Shack. You can get it up and running with a minimal outlay of peripheral equipment.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
Tobias Club
Click to expand...
Do you think I could just plug a mic into the audio interface at the church and record what's coming through the speakers and use that program?
 
#27
Also, another question. We have three speakers and a subwoofer. The left and right speakers are linked and act as the main speakers. The center speaker and subwoofer are both on AUX sends.

Each of these speakers has its own GEQ/PEQ on the board. Should I EQ each one indvidually?
 
#28

KingRazor said:
Ok, do you have any suggestions for mics that come with calibration files?
Click to expand...
Typically they don’t. You have to either send your mic to a lab to have that done, or order one from a lab that they have calibrated. The HT Shack has a recommended vendor that sells calibrated mics as cheap as $70.


KingRazor said:
Also, another question. We have three speakers and a subwoofer. The left and right speakers are linked and act as the main speakers. The center speaker and subwoofer are both on AUX sends.

Each of these speakers has its own GEQ/PEQ on the board. Should I EQ each one indvidually?
Click to expand...
If the fronts are matching, it’s probably best to use the same EQ filters for all three, at least down to 300 Hz or so. The subwoofer can be EQ’d independently.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
Tobias Club

 
#29
Alright I'm going to ask a few really specific questions because I've not at all experienced with this:

Where should I place the mic? Middle of the room? Near the front? Near the back? Should it be on the floor or hanging off of something? I assume it should be pointed towards the stage? (two of the speakers are on opposite sides of the stage and the center is hanging from the ceiling)

Should I try for equal amounts of signal level to each speaker? If the mic is in the middle of the room it will "hear" more of the center than either of the side speakers.

I actually have a lot of control over how channels are sent to each speaker. I have pan control, center send percentage (ex: 50% should be evenly distributed between all speakers, I often put vocals at about 60%, more in the center)

The board has a built in RTA, but I'm wondering if it would be better to record to our interface and use some RTA software on the recording PC.
 
#30
When building a mix , you "repair" problems 'till satisfaction.

Being able to hear what's causing the problem is the main thing when mixing.
Is it floor ringing or it's the grand piano?
The feedback that just happened , is it the gtr vocals in the bassist mix or the lead vocals in the PA ? etc.....

Knowing what to do to repair that problem is the second most important thing.
Add EQ , remove a frequency , add comp , remove comp , gate etc......

The best tip is experience and ear training.
If you come to a point where you are able to instantly know that you have to cut let's say 160hz in the floor , and it IS the real problem , you'll on your way to become a good soundman.

It's ALL about ear training

( and good taste and psycology but these are other threads ! )

It is absolutly impossible to give tips about EQ'ing over internet. There is too much variables with acoustics and equipement.
I wouldn't rely on that anyways if I was you.
 
#31
Amen to ear training. Amen to experience. There are no shortcuts for either.

That said, a good starting primer course is the book/cd by F. Alton Everest called "Critical Listening Skills For Audio Professionals." He also wrote the modern day bible of acoustics called "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" which is a must read if you want to understand more than just RTA measurements. Add to that the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook and you've got a tremendous amount of practical info to absorb while you learn on the job.
 
#32
testing1two said:
Amen to ear training. Amen to experience. There are no shortcuts for either.

That said, a good starting primer course is the book/cd by F. Alton Everest called "Critical Listening Skills For Audio Professionals." He also wrote the modern day bible of acoustics called "The Master Handbook of Acoustics" which is a must read if you want to understand more than just RTA measurements. Add to that the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook and you've got a tremendous amount of practical info to absorb while you learn on the job.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the book suggestions. This is the kind of stuff I was asking for.

I know ear training is a big part of this. My problem has usually been I just don't have the time to delve deep into EQ and listen to how each frequency effects the tone of an instrument.

I show up right before rehearsal starts, get my gain structure set up, and try to get a decent mix together. Then about a half hour later comes the worship set. There's not really any time to experiment during that, by then I have to be on my toes, making sure solos and lead parts are up when they need to be, increasing and decreasing effects for different songs, using the main fader to add some "emotion" at various parts.

Then the sermon starts and I sit back and just monitor while the Pastor preaches. After he's done, the service is over, I upload the recording of it and I'm done.

During all of that I just don't get a whole lot of time to experiment really. So, I just look for guidelines to follow and stick to those.
 
#33
If you can multi-track the band then listen to each one at home and experiment with frequency and what it does to that particular tone.
Problem with this is that room acoustics , wich is critical Live, won't have the effect it would normaly do in the room your mixing. But it can give you clues , and listening to each one "soloed" , you could learn about their own strenght and weekness.
 
#34

KingRazor said:
Alright I'm going to ask a few really specific questions because I've not at all experienced with this:

Where should I place the mic? Middle of the room? Near the front? Near the back? Should it be on the floor or hanging off of something? I assume it should be pointed toawardsa the stage? (two of the speakers are on opposite sides of the stage and the center is hanging from the ceiling)
Click to expand...
Different people have different preferences. I like to put the mic directly in front of one of the speakers, about the middle of the audience, horizontal and angled up ~20˚. I’d turn off all speakers except the one you're measuring. You might measure all three main speakers separately, and make a note of the EQ filters needed for each. Hopefully there’s not much difference between them. If there is, try out each set of filters and see which ones you think sound best. Remember, you want to use the same filter settings for all three speakers. Also keep in mind that the lower frequency range of the combined main speakers (i.e. when they’re all up and running, as it is during regular use) might increase a few dB, so take that into consideration when EQing.

KingRazor said:
I know ear training is a big part of this. My problem has usually been I just don't have the time to delve deep into EQ and listen to how each frequency effects the tone of an instrument.

I show up right before rehearsal starts, get my gain structure set up, and try to get a decent mix together. Then about a half hour later comes the worship set. There's not really any time to experiment during that, by then I have to be on my toes, making sure solos and lead parts are up when they need to be, increasing and decreasing effects for different songs, using the main fader to add some "emotion" at various parts.
Click to expand...
You can do your experimenting during the rehearsal; that’s the best time anyway (as you noted, you can’t do it once the service starts. Take the last 5 minutes of rehearsal to get your final mix, a few minutes up front for the gain settings. That leaves you 20 minutes of “play time.” Not a lot, but better than nothing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
Tobias Club

 

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