ESP MusicCord

[Faderoktopus]

I think it gets even worse: by putting your name beside this kind of miraculous-until-proven-otherwise gadgets you are lowering the standard of your endorsements and probably hurting the image of other companies involved in true, actual research.

+1, this was exactly my point about trying to keep the MI market as honest and transparent as humanly possible. Not understanding nearly as much about electronics as I would like, I sometimes have to rely on word of mouth when choosing what to try out next. Experience is good, but you can't always gig an amp for three years before deciding to buy it.

It is my humble opinion that talented artists should outgrow the "IT'S ALL ABOUT ART NOT COLD SCIENCE!!111" attitude and use a sensible approach when talking about things not made by musicians.

You are right, but only to an extent. Remember that once whatever product is made, sold and used, any difference in tone that it actually has will be judged subjectively. The tiny (perhaps negligible but at least real) differences from things such as instrument cables or tonewoods will not necessarily improve your tone, that is a matter of personal taste and not of whether you can measure the difference.

Being a talented artist doesn't have a lot to do with the rationalization of electrical equipment. It is my suspicion that the ESP endorsers never even doubted that the power cord made a difference, and probably never will unless it is brought to their attention that it doesn't.

 

[kevteop]

I'm a latecomer to this, and I only had time to read up to page 20. Was the conclusion something like 'Respect other peoples' beliefs'?

I enjoyed the contributions of Bill Fitzdawkins.

 

[billfitzmaurice]

It is my suspicion that the ESP endorsers never even doubted that the power cord made a difference, and probably never will unless it is brought to their attention that it doesn't.

Even if brought to their attention would they care? Take Tiger Woods. The day he turned pro he got a 30 million dollar endorsement deal with Nike. Sweet. Was it based on his use of Nike golf products? Hardly. They didn't make any golf products other than shoes. The clubs, balls, Tiger apparel and all the rest came later, in some cases years later.
Face it, everyone is a whore, all that's in question is the price it takes to sell your name. For Tiger it was 30 mil. I suspect Victor et all settled for considerably less.

 

[Febs]

I'm a latecomer to this, and I only had time to read up to page 20. Was the conclusion something like 'Respect other peoples' beliefs'?

Respect for other peoples' beliefs is fine, to a point. Say I have the choice of driving a heavy truck over either of two bridges. Bridge A is recommended to me by an engineer who has never traveled over the bridge himself, but who has concluded based on established engineering principles that it will support the load weight of my truck. Bridge B is recommended to me by someone who is not an engineer and has no experience building bridges, but has driven over the bridge and truly believes that it will support the weight of my truck.

Which bridge do you think I'm going to take?

 

[Epidrake]

Wow. I guess I was wrong all these years. I always thought musicians were open minded. I guess not.

You can't use science to prove that a 59 Les Paul with original PAF's sounds better than a brand new Custom Shop Les Paul with ostensibly the exact output pickups, but the 59 does sound better. It's not always about science and measurements.

 

[wcriley]

It's not always about science and measurements.

Yes, it is all about science and measurements.
If the two guitars actually sound different, the difference can be measured and explained by science.

 

[Jonyak]

Yes, it is all about science and measurements.
The two guitars can actually sound different and the difference can be measured.
Two power cords will not sound any different (unless one is defective or very light guage), and any measurements will show no difference between them.

Not to mention the guitar scenario is entirley subjective.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

Wow. I guess I was wrong all these years. I always thought musicians were open minded. I guess not.

You can't use science to prove that a 59 Les Paul with original PAF's sounds better than a brand new Custom Shop Les Paul with ostensibly the exact output pickups, but the 59 does sound better. It's not always about science and measurements.

Personal preferences regarding which of two sounds you might like better aren't about science and measurements, but facts are. You're confusing the two.

What, exactly, is open-minded about assuming that a belief about a fact trumps actual knowledge regarding that fact? What is open-minded about believing that one's perceptions can't possibly be influenced by bias and expectations?

Scientists are often much more open-minded than you think. That's how we get new science, as it happens.

 

[Mark Reccord]

Wow. I guess I was wrong all these years. I always thought musicians were open minded. I guess not.

You can't use science to prove that a 59 Les Paul with original PAF's sounds better than a brand new Custom Shop Les Paul with ostensibly the exact output pickups, but the 59 does sound better. It's not always about science and measurements.

You can use science to prove they sound different. Whether one sounds "better" than the other is purely subjective, of course.

 

[greenboy]

Wow. I guess I was wrong all these years. I always thought musicians were open minded. I guess not.

Who said the quote about being so open minded your brains fall out? - Yahoo! Answers

"Keep an open mind – but not so open that your brain falls out."

variants: "Their minds are so open that nothing stays in."

"...a mind so 'open' that almost anything can blow through it without leaving a trace."

 

[Febs]

Wow. I guess I was wrong all these years. I always thought musicians were open minded. I guess not.

You can't use science to prove that a 59 Les Paul with original PAF's sounds better than a brand new Custom Shop Les Paul with ostensibly the exact output pickups, but the 59 does sound better. It's not always about science and measurements.

This is a trite and tired argument that COMPLETELY misses the point. Science can show that two instruments sound different. If they sound different, then which one sounds better is a completely subjective determination. If they don't sound different, then debating which one sounds better is pointless.

 

[3506string]

If I designed a big comfortable strap and made claims that it could improve the sustain, sweeten the highs, focused the mids, and tightened up the bottom end of your bass, would you be willing to drop $150 on one.

I would hope not because most of us absolutely know what a strap does. The difference being that most people haven't a clue about how their amplifier operates.

Once again I will link to this test because to me it is significant. This test was done using a [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] Coming in at or over $2500 there's no doubt that it has technologies that would make the ESP look like jumper cables. The result was out of 15 test participants, overall they identified the correct cable 49% of the time or in other words around the same statistical significance of flipping a coin.

Once again I have no problem with those that own and enjoy the cable, my beef lies with the people marketing them. But hey they are making money so.

 

[jmac]

Yes, it is all about science and measurements.
If the two guitars actually sound different, the difference can be measured and explained by science.

How and what would you measure?

 

[Febs]

How and what would you measure?

Well, for one thing, you can easily measure the output of the pickups with any multimeter.

 

[wcriley]

If I designed a big comfortable strap and made claims that it could improve the sustain, sweeten the highs, focused the mids, and tightened up the bottom end of your bass, would you be willing to drop $150 on one.

I would hope not because most of us absolutely know what a strap does. The difference being that most people haven't a clue about how their amplifier operates.

Probably the best analogy yet!

 

[wcriley]

How and what would you measure?

Measure the frequency spectrum and output level of each guitar.

 

[greenboy]

How and what would you measure?

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/bass-frequency-waterfall-plots-what-they-mean-rigs-510749/

Novax Guitars: Information: Technical Lecture

 

[Jonyak]

How and what would you measure?

using a spectrum analyzer I would analyze the spectral components of the 2 guitars sound. this would give you a fairly comprehensive picture of what the different is between the 2.

You could then go on to measuring the output of the pickups, the frequency response of the pickups and so on.

Wood is a notoriously difficult thing to measure as even interspecies they are of varying densities and moisture contents, so that would have to be left out.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

How and what would you measure?

In addition to what the other guys said, you could also assess the ability of individuals to tell the guitars apart--reliably and reproducibly, with a frequency significantly higher than could be achieved by chance--in a properly conducted double-blinded test.

Despite the common misconception, you don't always need a truckload of scopes and expensive gear to do something in a scientific manner. It's more about the methodology than about the machinery (though the tools are pretty cool too).

 

[fdeck]

Measure the frequency spectrum and output level of each guitar.

Even before measuring the output of the guitar, I would simply measure the impedance characteristics of the two pickups, maybe the acoustical properties of the guitar body, and the magnetic field strength.