- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Are you still using the Oliv G on top of the rest of the set?
Why did you swap that out?
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Double Bass Evah Pirazzi strings megathread part I
- Thread starter Francois Blais
- Start date
- Status
Why did you swap that out?
O.K., so the G is here, carefully packed and shipped from Francois and on my bass. Bad news for you guys, is I'm jaded by being in and out of love too often, I review strings and other things slowly and I'm traveling without my bass for 4 day memorial day weekend. So, don't expect too much from me for a little while.
But, here's a snack to hold you over. I reserve the right to amend all this later. First the unimportant stuff; cool green silks.
I really like the feel of the string. It feels somewhat OLIVesque. I don't think it's quite the diameter of the OLIV, but it's thick and spongy like that. First blush is I like the tone. It's round and warm, but not dead. The other 3 strings are Jazzers and it actually blends fairly well, although Jazzers are brighter. It is certainly not as bright as the Jazzer G, but it doesn't sonically mismatch with the D. If I decided that I liked these strings, I could see having them on both D and G or perhaps a full set.
Now, the VERY PRELIMINARY not so good. Granted it hasn't settled in and I haven't really even played it that much, but it doesn't seem to quite project like the Jazzers next to it. When I'm walking up around the neck join and then play and open E, A or D I get a resounding open string with body vibrating and string speaking and I'm not quite getting that from the G. Up in thumb position, it's nice and probably as loud, but it's just not quite the cannon open that the others are. But, it may settle into that. I'll give it time.
I will also say, very cautiously, that Francois had trimmed this and you're really not supposed to uninstall and reinstall synthetic core strings, which we did, but I put it on, then had to bring the tension down and back up again (I didn't seat the ball in the tailpiece right the first time) and noticed what MAY have been some winding separation up around the head. Maybe, I don't want to be the first to suggest that, but I'll mention it and report back later. I told you I was jaded and I have a bad history with strings that are not all metal.
I'm excited to have the chance to try it and will report back more when I've had a chance to put it through its proper paces.
Troy
But, here's a snack to hold you over. I reserve the right to amend all this later. First the unimportant stuff; cool green silks.
I really like the feel of the string. It feels somewhat OLIVesque. I don't think it's quite the diameter of the OLIV, but it's thick and spongy like that. First blush is I like the tone. It's round and warm, but not dead. The other 3 strings are Jazzers and it actually blends fairly well, although Jazzers are brighter. It is certainly not as bright as the Jazzer G, but it doesn't sonically mismatch with the D. If I decided that I liked these strings, I could see having them on both D and G or perhaps a full set.
Now, the VERY PRELIMINARY not so good. Granted it hasn't settled in and I haven't really even played it that much, but it doesn't seem to quite project like the Jazzers next to it. When I'm walking up around the neck join and then play and open E, A or D I get a resounding open string with body vibrating and string speaking and I'm not quite getting that from the G. Up in thumb position, it's nice and probably as loud, but it's just not quite the cannon open that the others are. But, it may settle into that. I'll give it time.
I will also say, very cautiously, that Francois had trimmed this and you're really not supposed to uninstall and reinstall synthetic core strings, which we did, but I put it on, then had to bring the tension down and back up again (I didn't seat the ball in the tailpiece right the first time) and noticed what MAY have been some winding separation up around the head. Maybe, I don't want to be the first to suggest that, but I'll mention it and report back later. I told you I was jaded and I have a bad history with strings that are not all metal.
I'm excited to have the chance to try it and will report back more when I've had a chance to put it through its proper paces.
Troy
I am using the Oliv G...and just put the Oliv D on as well. The Evah D and G are strong strings in my opinion. My biggest hang-up is the guage. I have been using thick diameter strings for so long that it feels very odd to go back to a thinner core string. Also the spongy-ness of the Olivs (or all gut) is so addicting. I will probably try them out again in a few weeks (the G and D that is) as I think they are great strings and sounded really good on my bass. I have a few recordings coming up and I know the Oliv's sound good in the studio. I don't want to go into these recording projects with any doubt about my sound. I will say the I have had no problems with the windings. They are holding up very well. The E and A match up really well with the Oliv's. The Oliv's have a richer, more complex tone but the feel, diameter, and wrap are dead on. Thrugh the amp they sound full and thick. Not as brilliant as a steel string but still have a great deal of presence. They sound great through the Full Circle...a little lost through the Realist (I have both on my bass right now). I think for gut players on the G and D these would be something to at least try on your E and A at some point. What are your thoughts Andy?
I have both the E and A on there now, and they feel great - ideal tension and thickness to match the Oliv D&G. They are a similar medium gauge, but have more spring to them than the Spiro mittels.
I had a bit of a scare putting the E on, as it is quite long and the metal winding wound itself onto the tuning peg. This would have been instant death to a Dominant, but the EP came up to tune fine, and does not visibly seem to be in danger of coming apart. I'll be giving it a good bashing at my acoustic gigs this weekend, so I hope it stands up.
I am not lacking E&A volume at all - the volume compared with the Olivs is surprisingly consistent, but the EPs are not quite as complex sounding as the Olivs. This is not too much of a problem on the lower strings, and they have a fatter sound than the spiros (and Doms).
Bowing is not as good as either the Olivs or Dominants, and the response is slower than the Spiros (but with a much richer sound). The bowed sound is not quite as defined as the Doms, or as sweet as the Olivs. That may be changing, though - the A has been on a few days now and is either becoming easier to bow, or I'm getting used to compensating for it.
The sound is becoming better overall as they wear in - probably a combination of the string plus my and my bass's adaptation to them.
Thumbs up so far - I'm impressed that Pirastro has obviously taken the Obligato criticizm to heart and produced a much better hybrid string (I never got on with the Oblis).
More info after my gigs at the weekend.
Andy
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
All this talk about Oliv D/G makes me want to get another pair and try them again. Especially after last nights sweaty hot sticky string plain gut disaster.
They may be a good summer string for me. I really liked them when they were on my bass but I was so heavy into the plain gut thing I didn't give them enough time to work around their idiosyncrasies.
Clearly the Evah is a string I know I'm going to like as well.
It never ends.
They may be a good summer string for me. I really liked them when they were on my bass but I was so heavy into the plain gut thing I didn't give them enough time to work around their idiosyncrasies.
Clearly the Evah is a string I know I'm going to like as well.
It never ends.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
My supplier says they are still a couple weeks away. Any one actually pay for these strings yet?
You want yours back, Phil? I'd just get some new ones myself, at this point. I think I'm done with the D-G search for now. I'm sold. Let me know.
....I have the string installed (on the A peg), and it looks like 55 1/2 inches (141cm).....
Thanks for that CTXBass
Tom
Thanks for that CTXBass
Tom
It seems that a surprising number of us wrote to Pirastro when the strings were announced, asking for trial sets. It worked!
I like these strings quite a lot, now that I've had them on for a bit. I still need to try them in more diverse gigging situations--it seems like I've been playing the Cleveland on most gigs because of the environmental situations. But, to echo much of what's already been said, the Pirazzis are kind of like a synthetic version of Olivs. Or Obligatos on steroids. They are actually quite similar to Dominants on my bass, except they bow better and they are quite a bit darker (no plastic-y thing going on here). The strings have a pretty huge sound and a strong projection, and for the first time on my bass when I get above the G on the D string the notes are thunderous and powerful (this was always an issue on this particular bass). I will say that I have the action pretty high (I just left it where it was when I took the guts off and put these on), and while the tonal response is great the difficulty of playing is a bit much.
I think for many people these strings may be too dark and too heavy, but that's also something that can be adjusted at the bridge and soundpost. For the combination of fat, dark pizz and easy arco response, these are pretty sweet.
Uncle Toad, I'm sure you'd enjoy some qualities of these strings. But, as a gut player, I have to say that I don't find them to be "gut-like" (except in the sense that so many people use the term, meaning "not like Spirocores"). I kind of feel like if someone plays steel and then finds that they love Olivs, the Pirazzis would also work well because they're in between the two; but if someone loves plain gut and also digs Olivs, maybe the Pirazzis aren't a logical choice because they're further on towards the steel sound than Olivs. But this is based on the response on my bass, which is an unusual beast; Pirazzis feel very similar to Dominants on it, but darker and bigger.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Nicely written. You know I'll try them anyhow....
Darker and bigger, could be good.
I've been realizing on my recordings of myself that I'm probably to Dark and Big and could stand some dialing back there.
I just love that sound though....
well written jeremy allen.
i feel the Oliv and the EP are similar. the EP D string being clearer at the a and higher though. they do seem to have a good bit of power and sound pretty big. But, also, my string height is a bit excessive and that does make them tiring to play Pizz. but it keeps the sound nice and big. I've thought about the idea of lowering them a bit to see what they do.
i agree with pretty much everything you said, i really like the arco response.
i feel the Oliv and the EP are similar. the EP D string being clearer at the a and higher though. they do seem to have a good bit of power and sound pretty big. But, also, my string height is a bit excessive and that does make them tiring to play Pizz. but it keeps the sound nice and big. I've thought about the idea of lowering them a bit to see what they do.
i agree with pretty much everything you said, i really like the arco response.
That's definitely my next step. I played them last night on a one-hour wallpaper gig, and about three notes into it I was giving thanks that it wasn't a four-hour jazz extravaganza 'cause I never would have survived. One thing I love about playing plain guts (or at least plastic-wrapped plain gut) is that at the end of a gig I feel as fresh as I did at the beginning.
Here are a few thoughts from a mainly orchestral bassist:
The following relates to an older Italian double bass. Its character is warm with a powerful response. It's not bright, but because the midrange is slightly subdued metalic sounding strings can take on an unpleasant edge under the ear. It's fitted with an English low-C extension machine. What follows is based on an EP set containing the 2.1 meter E. In general I find the long E's have better focus than standard Es stopped at the nut but I can't say whether that's true of these.
I ended up changing strings earlier than planned when my previous E broke during the Finale of Bruckner 7th. I don't like to change either a single string or a set mid-performance because of response/tonal differences and pitch sag. I think Bruckner would have been pleased with the outcome however. Within 24 hours the Evah Pirazzi set settled to a useable pitch stretch and although they've sagged slightly over the last few days they remain as stable as most steel strings. Had I known I might have changed them earlier.
For the past year this instrument has been strung with Corelli 370 TX Forte's. They've provided exceptional response under the bow and a pizzicato with a sharp stone-in-the-water attack and a beautiful expansive bloom. I didn't want to sacrifice that. With the Evah Pirazzis I didn't have to though their charactistics are markedly different. The pizzicato attack is firmly defined with a dark moderate sustain. Because they deliver an enhanced upper bass / lower midrange response, as opposed to steel, the pitch is always clear and focused. The fundamental frequencies across all four strings are very full and powerful.
Bowed response is outstanding - quick to move whether a hard edged forte or a feather brushed pianissimo is required. There is not the slightest hint of the metalic edge I associate with many steel strings. Yet they produce very clear pitch due in part to their dark gut like honk. The focus comes not from edge but out of the lower frequencies and midrange. One might think this a disadvantage in the high tessitura however the sound is full and complex here. High on the fingerboard I can play very close to the bridge for an all out Italian operatic tenor without the skinning-the-cat whine associated with many other strings. In short, they really drive the bass in the frequencies and overtones where it likes to resonate. Curiously, wolf tones are more manageable as well.
There is only one caveat so far and it has to do with the 2.1 meter extended E. Usually I look for a long E exhibiting both an arco and pizz growl that brings focus to the lower pitches. It's a task to ferret these out and I often have to mix string sets to get it. In this regard the Evah Pirazzi long E is almost too good to be true. In fact, I have to deliberately not overplay it in order for it to speak well. I've choked it off a time or two in ff passages where a less aggressive approach would have yielded results. Perhaps part of this is my setup and I'll be spending some time with my luthier in the next few weeks to see if a sound post adjustment might help. Also I use the stickiest of stickies, Pops rosin. Maybe it's time I can finally use something a little less biting (and problematic) while retaining the ability to sustain fortissimo sostenuto with less effort.
Overall, these are top notch orchestral strings delivering more low frequency power than most while remaining pitch clear and deeply focused. For jazz and other pizzicato they also respond beautifully if one doesn't need long, bright sustain.
Cheers,
The following relates to an older Italian double bass. Its character is warm with a powerful response. It's not bright, but because the midrange is slightly subdued metalic sounding strings can take on an unpleasant edge under the ear. It's fitted with an English low-C extension machine. What follows is based on an EP set containing the 2.1 meter E. In general I find the long E's have better focus than standard Es stopped at the nut but I can't say whether that's true of these.
I ended up changing strings earlier than planned when my previous E broke during the Finale of Bruckner 7th. I don't like to change either a single string or a set mid-performance because of response/tonal differences and pitch sag. I think Bruckner would have been pleased with the outcome however. Within 24 hours the Evah Pirazzi set settled to a useable pitch stretch and although they've sagged slightly over the last few days they remain as stable as most steel strings. Had I known I might have changed them earlier.
For the past year this instrument has been strung with Corelli 370 TX Forte's. They've provided exceptional response under the bow and a pizzicato with a sharp stone-in-the-water attack and a beautiful expansive bloom. I didn't want to sacrifice that. With the Evah Pirazzis I didn't have to though their charactistics are markedly different. The pizzicato attack is firmly defined with a dark moderate sustain. Because they deliver an enhanced upper bass / lower midrange response, as opposed to steel, the pitch is always clear and focused. The fundamental frequencies across all four strings are very full and powerful.
Bowed response is outstanding - quick to move whether a hard edged forte or a feather brushed pianissimo is required. There is not the slightest hint of the metalic edge I associate with many steel strings. Yet they produce very clear pitch due in part to their dark gut like honk. The focus comes not from edge but out of the lower frequencies and midrange. One might think this a disadvantage in the high tessitura however the sound is full and complex here. High on the fingerboard I can play very close to the bridge for an all out Italian operatic tenor without the skinning-the-cat whine associated with many other strings. In short, they really drive the bass in the frequencies and overtones where it likes to resonate. Curiously, wolf tones are more manageable as well.
There is only one caveat so far and it has to do with the 2.1 meter extended E. Usually I look for a long E exhibiting both an arco and pizz growl that brings focus to the lower pitches. It's a task to ferret these out and I often have to mix string sets to get it. In this regard the Evah Pirazzi long E is almost too good to be true. In fact, I have to deliberately not overplay it in order for it to speak well. I've choked it off a time or two in ff passages where a less aggressive approach would have yielded results. Perhaps part of this is my setup and I'll be spending some time with my luthier in the next few weeks to see if a sound post adjustment might help. Also I use the stickiest of stickies, Pops rosin. Maybe it's time I can finally use something a little less biting (and problematic) while retaining the ability to sustain fortissimo sostenuto with less effort.
Overall, these are top notch orchestral strings delivering more low frequency power than most while remaining pitch clear and deeply focused. For jazz and other pizzicato they also respond beautifully if one doesn't need long, bright sustain.
Cheers,
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Excellent review, Thanks Hampton.
Bruckner 7 finale deserves a broken string. That's the only way to be sure you haven't held anything back.
Bruckner 7 finale deserves a broken string. That's the only way to be sure you haven't held anything back.
Thanks Hampton, wonderful review...!
As you played the past year with Corelli 370 TX Forte's, do you think EvahPirazzis are stiffer than Corellis? What about its tension?
My instrument needs low tension strings..and now it is strung with Corelli 370 TX Forte with exceptional results!
For instance, I liked a lot Belcanto, and I find them a wonderful Orchestra string (maybe the best orchestra string so far: dark, powerful, definite, round..) but they were stiffer than Corellis.. and my left hand didn't like them so much..
Me and my left hand love Corellis..Are EP's as playable as Corellis?
So do you think EP's have a better projection and clearity than Corellis?
I found, on my bass, Corellis opened a lot the sound and improved projection and clarity, keeping the sound round (but not too fat, I must say..). What is incredible about this string -corelli- is its playability..they let me do lots of things I didn't manage to do with other strings whose I loved the sound (Pirastro Orig.Flat, Velvet compas180, Belcanto Thomastik, Obligato etc..)
I'm looking forward your reply!
Thanks a lot.
As you played the past year with Corelli 370 TX Forte's, do you think EvahPirazzis are stiffer than Corellis? What about its tension?
My instrument needs low tension strings..and now it is strung with Corelli 370 TX Forte with exceptional results!
For instance, I liked a lot Belcanto, and I find them a wonderful Orchestra string (maybe the best orchestra string so far: dark, powerful, definite, round..) but they were stiffer than Corellis.. and my left hand didn't like them so much..
Me and my left hand love Corellis..Are EP's as playable as Corellis?
So do you think EP's have a better projection and clearity than Corellis?
I found, on my bass, Corellis opened a lot the sound and improved projection and clarity, keeping the sound round (but not too fat, I must say..). What is incredible about this string -corelli- is its playability..they let me do lots of things I didn't manage to do with other strings whose I loved the sound (Pirastro Orig.Flat, Velvet compas180, Belcanto Thomastik, Obligato etc..)
I'm looking forward your reply!
Thanks a lot.
The playability of the Corelli is what attracted my attention too. I haven't been out in the hall to hear the EP's nor was I for the Corelli's so I can't comment on projection except to say that the EP's make my instrument feel like it's got more low end throw. But then, there were times guys in the brass section would come to me and remark about a solo passage saying my sound (with the Corelli's) was massive. That from a trombone and a trumpet player - I probably should have backed off!
I'm just now getting used to the thicker EP's. The transition from something like a Flexocor probably would be negligible. From the higher tension but still thin 370 Corelli's they require some adjustment. Especially the G. For me, it's not their compliance, it's the thickness under the left hand I'm coming to terms with.
My guess is these particular Corelli's are not exactly low tension, but I don't know the numbers. The EP's deliver every bit, and maybe more, an open sound on my partuclar instrument. All that says to me, however, is the way it's set up works for either.
I'm just now getting used to the thicker EP's. The transition from something like a Flexocor probably would be negligible. From the higher tension but still thin 370 Corelli's they require some adjustment. Especially the G. For me, it's not their compliance, it's the thickness under the left hand I'm coming to terms with.
My guess is these particular Corelli's are not exactly low tension, but I don't know the numbers. The EP's deliver every bit, and maybe more, an open sound on my partuclar instrument. All that says to me, however, is the way it's set up works for either.
Hampton and others have said that the Pirazzis are thicker than what they were using before. Does anyone have any measurements on precisely how big these strings actually are?
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