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Expensive vs cheap pickups?

I was going to say in response to this that if there was one piece of musical advice I could go back and give my younger self, it would be "don't blow all your money on pedals. They don't made you play better and you are wasting all your money"

But as soon as I though it I realized that was a dumb though, as if I didn't blow my money on pedals I probably would have blown it on something even stupider. Maybe gear addiction is the lesser of a few evils for a young musician.
My hobbies are grilling (often), gaming (rarely), and music (often).
Is my wife occasionally annoyed at the expense of my hobbies? Yes. Her hobbies are super cheap.
But, at the same time... like she says, there are a lot of hobbies out there a lot unhealthier than tinkering with basses.
 
All my basses have a certain quality to the sound when played unplugged that is still there when amplified. The pickups simply take that and shape it. Some frequencies are ignored, some are present and some are emphasized.

I don't know where the unplugged sound comes from exactly. The strings have a huge importance, of course. I've also noticed that a bigger neck (wider or thicker) sounds fatter. I put a Vintera neck on my Player P and it gained low end. I also noticed that the shallower the neck to body angle is, the softer the feel of the bass is. A steeper angle gives a tighter feel.

My Player P has a weak low end. My MIJ P has cheap ceramic pickups with more low end. With the same Fender flats, which have a ton of midrange, the MIJ sounds muddy.

Different pickups have different EQ profiles. Just listen to the Pure Vintage 63s. A ton of low end and very little high end. The Custom Shop 62s are more balanced and somewhat more scooped in the mids.

My Bronco sounded clear with the stock pickup but it was ridiculously noisy and it didn't sound like a bass.
With a cheap Artec alnico dual blade humbucker it's quiet but very muddy and it still doesn't sound like a bass. The E string has no presence. I'm giving it one more pickup change before giving up on it. I think it needs a bass pickup.

I know demos are to be taken with a grain of salt but every single P bass I've heard on YouTube, vintage to modern, that had Labellas sounded practically the same.

I'd love to be able to play many different basses and be proven wrong but until then, to me, pickups will only be an EQ curve of a guitar's acoustic sound.
 
IME you usually get what you pay for.
I once put some Sadowsky pickups in a cheap J bass and while they were a great improvement, they didn't quite make up for a certain lackluster response from the cheap wood.

This
Quality is quality, you just need to know if its worth the money.
I'm currently using
Nordstrands Nj5. top pickups
Fender CS good
Delano FMC iirc..good
Bart soaps..not sure of the model..good.
Raw vintage lovely.

But all sit on good construction basses with decent woods and builds.

Conversely Sire pickups werent bad ..the best thing about the bass, along with the pre but couldn't really rescue the rest of the package. imo.
 
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I just replaced some overwound alnico Kent Armstrongs with some cheap Alan Entwistle ceramics in a JB, and I'm very happy with the result. The Kent Armstrongs may go in a fretless where the darker sound may suit it better.
 
All my basses have a certain quality to the sound when played unplugged that is still there when amplified. The pickups simply take that and shape it. Some frequencies are ignored, some are present and some are emphasized.

I don't know where the unplugged sound comes from exactly. The strings have a huge importance, of course. I've also noticed that a bigger neck (wider or thicker) sounds fatter. I put a Vintera neck on my Player P and it gained low end. I also noticed that the shallower the neck to body angle is, the softer the feel of the bass is. A steeper angle gives a tighter feel.

My Player P has a weak low end. My MIJ P has cheap ceramic pickups with more low end. With the same Fender flats, which have a ton of midrange, the MIJ sounds muddy.

Different pickups have different EQ profiles. Just listen to the Pure Vintage 63s. A ton of low end and very little high end. The Custom Shop 62s are more balanced and somewhat more scooped in the mids.

My Bronco sounded clear with the stock pickup but it was ridiculously noisy and it didn't sound like a bass.
With a cheap Artec alnico dual blade humbucker it's quiet but very muddy and it still doesn't sound like a bass. The E string has no presence. I'm giving it one more pickup change before giving up on it. I think it needs a bass pickup.

I know demos are to be taken with a grain of salt but every single P bass I've heard on YouTube, vintage to modern, that had Labellas sounded practically the same.

I'd love to be able to play many different basses and be proven wrong but until then, to me, pickups will only be an EQ curve of a guitar's acoustic sound.

A bigger neck may mean a stiffer neck, and so a little more sound from the strings. The JB I just changed pickups in has a Warmoth neck with reinforcing rods, but thr pickup choice definitely overwhelms the natural sound of the bass. It's still one of the darker sounding basses I have, but I'm not going to pull pickups out of another bass to try unless I start putting screw terminals on things. Maple fingerboard maybe the issue :).
 
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I'll weigh in my own findings within my settings;

I pieced a precision bass eight years back, & it started off with it's "cheap" pickups & electronics, & when i was done setting it up, it played & sounded decent. Played a few gigs with it as such, & then i upgrade the cheap pickup - & it's mini pots - for a duncan QP I had lying around (from my drummers Hoppus bass we had installed a dimarzio split rails instead), & full size pots. While it was an upgrade, as i started to find the cheap pickup lackluster, lifeless (though it did the trick in a short scale mustang/musicmaster bass i had built & given to a friend of mine way back. So it wasn't terrible just wasn't for my musical tone), the QP would be "short" lived too, as i'd swap it out months down the line for a duncan SPB-2 Hot for pbass. & it's been that way ever since. & I do play with distortion/drives - in each stage of this pbass' life the cheaper pickups sounded thin, the QP would overload my clean signal to begin with ( i may have a heavy hand, but it's also pretty steady), the SPB-2 gave me the fullness without overloading the headroom, & every note is clear - unless i desire to crank the gain & let chaos consume the song.

On a contrary note, I had gotten a slammer by hamer double cut LP jr style guitar, which had two humbuckers that sounded awesome. Though i ripped it all out in favour of making my own Dual cut P90 Jr. the pickup i used was an "economy" one from online which was dirt cheap in cost, but sounds amazing in this guitar! I'm sure there's "better", & i had looked around, but the sound is just as raunchy, gritty & full as a p90 sound is.

I enjoy a variety of tones, i'll usually research to death on various pickups before biting the bullet, but sometimes i luck out with just an off chance it might hunch.
 
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I installed 2 Oripure split coils in a glarry bass body…. Super cheap and they sound great!!

i installed 2 Wilkinson mm style humbuckers in a $90 jazz bass body… super cheap and they sound great!!

i installed a Wilkinson mm style humbucker and an oripure split coil in a Harley Benton shorty….. super cheap and it sounds great!!

i bought a set of dragonfire jazz pickups and a PJ set for a couple basses. The dragonfires were not cheap compared to the Wilkinson or oripure but they were cheap compared to other major brands.
I have removed the dragonfires and even gave a set to another TBer…..I personally didn’t care for either set, just too mellow for my taste, not enough bite.

i have EMGs, Seymour Duncans and fender originals in other basses and they are great too.

no point here, just a sharing experience’s.

Which MM Wilkinson did you use? Are the M Series? Do you have clips? Pics? Were they wired in series or parallel? Was it placed in a MM pickup position? Thanks.
 


Hi All,

I came across the above video on youtube...

What are your thoughts and experience in general with regards to the above video demonstrating cheaper vs expensive electronics?

Does changing stock pickups to aftermarket ones really make a huge difference if you use a lot of preamp and amp eq/drive?

Cheers,

I believe that the amp makes more difference ,as long as the PUs are at least decent.
 
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Which MM Wilkinson did you use? Are the M Series? Do you have clips? Pics? Were they wired in series or parallel? Was it placed in a MM pickup position? Thanks.
This should answer most of your questions.
They are listed as Wilkinson “Lic” pickups now on Amazon with no other details but for $25(now, I paid less a few year’s ago when I made it) they were a worth while gamble.
 
One coil of the pickup died in my pre-EB Stingray. Just to get it working again while I decided what to do I put in a Guitarfetish GFS $30 pickup. It sounded… ok. Still full & adequate but didn’t really sound like a Ray anymore. Finally put in a Nordstrand alnico iii and holy hell, what a difference. It sounds even better than the stock pickup.
 
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All magnetic guitar/bass pickups (there is no magic difference, other than where the pole pieces are and how the thing is mounted), that makes a pickup a "guitar pickup" or a "bass pickup" have a similar frequency response. They are all flat in the bass and lover mids, have a peak somewhere in the upper mids or lower treble, and above that, the response falls off at 12 dB/octave. The frequency where that resonant peak in the upper mids/lower treble shows up depends on the inductance of the pickup, and the capacitive load - some of which is in the windings, and the rest in in your cable. You can also add your own loading if you want to - a loading capacitor. The height of that peak is determined by damping in the system. Some of that damping is in the pickup (you can add or remove damping in the construction of a pickup with shorting rings or similar structures that add eddy currents), some of it is in the pots you use in the bass, and some of it is in the input impedance of whatever you plug it into.

As far as how much you can alter the tone of a pickup, that depends on a number of things. In the case of Fenderish pickups - where the magnets are the same in pretty much all the Fender designs, and most of the clones, in a lot of designs, the only things that makes one sound different from the next one are the number of turns and the winding pattern. Yes, there are other things that can affect performance, but there are a whole lot of folks that copy magnet materials, sizes, and wire gauges (there is a religious adherence to 42 gauge wire in many of these winders), to where the only real difference is the number of turns and the winding pattern. The number of turns affects the inductance, and the winding pattern alters the pickup's interwinding capacitance.

If your buy pickups that are on the low side in terms of inductance, you can tune their response via loading capacitance to where they can sound like a pickup with more turns. If you buy a pickup on the high side in terms of inductance, you can't undo that - there are no negative capacitors.

My step son had a Squier affinity strat. The pickups on that were wound rather low in inductance - they seem to have actually used a bigger gauge of wire, and wound with lower turns than a "normal" strat". Why would they do that? One of the things you can do to make a pickup cheaper is wind them faster. Fewer turns means less time on the machine (more pickups per hour), and a fatter wire gauge means it's stronger, so you can wind the turns faster without breaking wires. so , the thing sounded thin - low inductance. With some shorted turns and loading caps to move the resonance peak to where a normal strat would be, the thing sounded a LOT better.

Pickups are magnets, sometimes pole pieces, and wire. Everything else is there to hold those things in place - there is no magic in the flatwork materials, the plastic used in the covers, etc. And the differences between most pickups of the same flavor (P pickups, for example) are smaller than most folks want to think they are. If the winder's name on your Fenderish pickup makes you think it's special, I have no problem with that, but in reality, it's not as magical as you think. In a blind test, I'm sure i could find (and load) a cheaper alternative pickup that would sound just the same to you.

If you buy a fancy pickup to put in your bass, and you want it to sound better, I highly suggest you put on fresh strings when you change pickups. You'll be amazed at how much better the "new pickup" makes your bass sound.
 
All magnetic guitar/bass pickups (there is no magic difference, other than where the pole pieces are and how the thing is mounted), that makes a pickup a "guitar pickup" or a "bass pickup" have a similar frequency response. They are all flat in the bass and lover mids, have a peak somewhere in the upper mids or lower treble, and above that, the response falls off at 12 dB/octave. The frequency where that resonant peak in the upper mids/lower treble shows up depends on the inductance of the pickup, and the capacitive load - some of which is in the windings, and the rest in in your cable. You can also add your own loading if you want to - a loading capacitor. The height of that peak is determined by damping in the system. Some of that damping is in the pickup (you can add or remove damping in the construction of a pickup with shorting rings or similar structures that add eddy currents), some of it is in the pots you use in the bass, and some of it is in the input impedance of whatever you plug it into.

As far as how much you can alter the tone of a pickup, that depends on a number of things. In the case of Fenderish pickups - where the magnets are the same in pretty much all the Fender designs, and most of the clones, in a lot of designs, the only things that makes one sound different from the next one are the number of turns and the winding pattern. Yes, there are other things that can affect performance, but there are a whole lot of folks that copy magnet materials, sizes, and wire gauges (there is a religious adherence to 42 gauge wire in many of these winders), to where the only real difference is the number of turns and the winding pattern. The number of turns affects the inductance, and the winding pattern alters the pickup's interwinding capacitance.

If your buy pickups that are on the low side in terms of inductance, you can tune their response via loading capacitance to where they can sound like a pickup with more turns. If you buy a pickup on the high side in terms of inductance, you can't undo that - there are no negative capacitors.

My step son had a Squier affinity strat. The pickups on that were wound rather low in inductance - they seem to have actually used a bigger gauge of wire, and wound with lower turns than a "normal" strat". Why would they do that? One of the things you can do to make a pickup cheaper is wind them faster. Fewer turns means less time on the machine (more pickups per hour), and a fatter wire gauge means it's stronger, so you can wind the turns faster without breaking wires. so , the thing sounded thin - low inductance. With some shorted turns and loading caps to move the resonance peak to where a normal strat would be, the thing sounded a LOT better.

Pickups are magnets, sometimes pole pieces, and wire. Everything else is there to hold those things in place - there is no magic in the flatwork materials, the plastic used in the covers, etc. And the differences between most pickups of the same flavor (P pickups, for example) are smaller than most folks want to think they are. If the winder's name on your Fenderish pickup makes you think it's special, I have no problem with that, but in reality, it's not as magical as you think. In a blind test, I'm sure i could find (and load) a cheaper alternative pickup that would sound just the same to you.

If you buy a fancy pickup to put in your bass, and you want it to sound better, I highly suggest you put on fresh strings when you change pickups. You'll be amazed at how much better the "new pickup" makes your bass sound.
Very informative, thanks for the post.
 
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Depends. I had a Fender p that had EMG active eq p/u, then swapped to quarter pounders, still no good, sold it. My new fender p will stay stock.
Also, there can’t be that much difference. Unless they are hand wound, # of turns, wound a particular direction. High grade magnets, Then there will be a difference. My experience is that anything below $100 are all similar. Different magnet types make a big difference, wiring series/parallel does also.
 
This should answer most of your questions.
They are listed as Wilkinson “Lic” pickups now on Amazon with no other details but for $25(now, I paid less a few year’s ago when I made it) they were a worth while gamble.


Hi, which of them were? The "M Series" or the other ones? Sorry if I ask a lot? Your bass seems to sound good but I would like to know which one did you buy. The "M Series" are quite new so there is almost no reviews or sound clips. I want to know if they are comparable to Seymour Duncans or similares in quality.

Sorry if I make too many questions but I don't want to spend a lot in something that is not so good. Thanks.
 

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I have the frequently-dismissed MK1's in my mid-tier Soundgear and, if it weren't for TalkBass, I probably wouldn't know the difference.

Riis
The most likely cause for you not being able to hear their abysmal tone, is that you're deaf, your amp/cab/DI/strings/cables are cheap rubbish and you probably can't play for s**t. Oh, it's a Soundgear, and not even one of the good ones from the 80s or the new ones made crafted in Japan? Now, if you'd just bought a ...
/bass playing audiophile mode
 
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The most likely cause for you not being able to hear their abysmal tone, is that you're deaf, your amp/cab/DI/strings/cables are cheap rubbish and you probably can't play for s**t. Oh, it's a Soundgear, and not even one of the good ones from the 80s or the new ones made crafted in Japan? Now, if you'd just bought a ...
/bass playing audiophile mode

Was this multiple choice or can I just check "all of the above"?

Riis
 
Hi, which of them were? The "M Series" or the other ones? Sorry if I ask a lot? Your bass seems to sound good but I would like to know which one did you buy. The "M Series" are quite new so there is almost no reviews or sound clips. I want to know if they are comparable to Seymour Duncans or similares in quality.

Sorry if I make too many questions but I don't want to spend a lot in something that is not so good. Thanks.
No worries, asking questions is how we all get information… good or bad.
I don’t think they are the M series since I bought them in 2021. To my knowledge, at that time they only put out the one type of mm style humbucker. Do they compare to the Seymour Duncan smbA? I honestly don’t know. I have a couple basses that I put Seymour Duncans in but they are in the “sweet spot” on those basses. The bass I posted that video for, the Wilkinsons are centered where the jazz pickups use to be… not in the “sweet spot” and audibly different to me. They work but in my experience, cheap or higher priced mm style pickups really shine in that sweet spot. The only benefit of using the Wilkinson pickups on that jazz bass comes from being able to switch them between series and parallel individually.
Please keep in mind that that jazz bass was a project of curiosity at the time and has gone through many many modifications before and after that video was made.

hope this helps:)
 
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