Extra compensation for extra work?

[richntiff]

Many of those things you say are true, I do the majority of the hauling, often find myself wrapping up cords while others are at the bar. Call me crazy but I believe wrapping them up correctly rather than throwing a pile in the case makes it easier to set up the next time! And as I said calm discussions have been tried and are a temp fix at best. Advocating for myself is the right way to say it.

whoa - if it's that bad - yikes. I'll take back my previous statement - well, that's NOT how it should work. In my bands, we all setup and tear down, so I don't have good perspective with lazy bandmates. Seriously - we practically fight over who is going to get to the drummer(s) truck to help haul his gear in. Yes, I've very lucky.

 

[Muttleybass]

The only way that would work is if you fired your bandmates and HIRED different guys and pay them a set amount to back you up. Of course, then it becomes a revolving door of players and it's difficult to keep it tight as there's no point in them being loyal.

Being the guy in my band that provides sets up and runs the PA, gets the gigs, does most of the singing, I can relate, however I respect them as players and know I can't do it without them. Good guys that are great players are hard to find.

...except the drummer. Him I can fire.



You might consider delegating some of the set up if it bothers you.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

whoa - if it's that bad - yikes. I'll take back my previous statement - well, that's NOT how it should work. In my bands, we all setup and tear down, so I don't have good perspective with lazy bandmates. Seriously - we practically fight over who is going to get to the drummer(s) truck to help haul his gear in. Yes, I've very lucky.

I'm glad you wrote this, I read your post earlier and thought.....ok.

It's been mentioned that this band has been 11-12 years in the running and I should have worked all this out much earlier. But our 3 pc has been only going about 2 years now and I guess it took me seeing how well a "team" mindset can work and realize that the 4 pc was not the same.

Someone else said, "people are always willing to let you do more for them" or something along those lines and that's pretty much how I feel since I now have the comparison to make.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Throw it out there by asking for 1.) more money, or 2.) everyone to rotate those responsibilities every gig. Bassist does it this gig, guitarist the next gig, drummer the next, etc, so everyone shares equally in the responsibilities for equal pay

Since I know there is such a variety of experience, knowledge, and talent on here I thought I'd pose this question to the other TB'ers.

So the "full" band I've been with for a LONG time seems to be coming full circle and may wind up this fall. I may be the one to quit first and spark that move to demise but that's not part of the question I'm getting to here.

So besides playing bass and singing at the gigs. I am responsible for connecting all the PA parts, the monitors, the leads to the board, and run sound during the gig. I usually end up with the foot switch for the LED's in front of me as well since the singer is not paying attention to the logistics.

Just a question, how do you guys feel about that division of labor and the fact that all 4 of us get paid the same? Am I within my rights to say I'm tired of doing the extra work and would like be compensated better for the effort?

I haven't done it yet, but in my mind there are two possible outcomes:

1) I'll be met with instant negative feedback because this pay division has been in place as long as this lineup has, about 11-12 years, so why change now
2) if I'm being paid more the main two complainers about everything soundwise will feel more empowered to be even more vocal

.

 

[bumperbass]

Just go about it from the other end.
Tell them you might have to quit the band because you just can't handle A,B,C,D,E...yourself. Just say it's too much after all these years.
They will either:
Ask you if you'd stay for more $$,
Offer to pitch in, or
Say, "Oh that's too bad! See ya later".

 

[madbass6]

Since I know there is such a variety of experience, knowledge, and talent on here I thought I'd pose this question to the other TB'ers.

So the "full" band I've been with for a LONG time seems to be coming full circle and may wind up this fall. I may be the one to quit first and spark that move to demise but that's not part of the question I'm getting to here.

So besides playing bass and singing at the gigs. I am responsible for connecting all the PA parts, the monitors, the leads to the board, and run sound during the gig. I usually end up with the foot switch for the LED's in front of me as well since the singer is not paying attention to the logistics.

Just a question, how do you guys feel about that division of labor and the fact that all 4 of us get paid the same? Am I within my rights to say I'm tired of doing the extra work and would like be compensated better for the effort?

I haven't done it yet, but in my mind there are two possible outcomes:

1) I'll be met with instant negative feedback because this pay division has been in place as long as this lineup has, about 11-12 years, so why change now
2) if I'm being paid more the main two complainers about everything soundwise will feel more empowered to be even more vocal

My opinion..
You defenetly should "NOT" be getting paid the same as the rest if doing more work then the rest!

 

[troy mcclure]

I have been in your shoes in past bands. As I started new projects, I offered to provide sound and lights for a very nominal fee. I also offered the same fee to someone else if they would provide it.
It is like having 2 kids and 1 piece of cake, I allow one kid to cut and the other to chose the piece.

 

[hrodbert696]

I'm with @lfmn16 on this - the most important principle is that any division of money, and of work, needs to be agreed on up front, not after the fact. If the band has been together 12 years and is soon to break up, I wouldn't bother trying to change the deal now.

People can argue their claim to a bigger share of the pay - before the band gets paid. They can discuss who's going to do which part of the work beyond just playing, and base any adjustments to the pay on that. But you can't do it and then after the fact say "you guys have to pay me more now."

In Six Cowards, I basically decided that I would assume responsibility for everything. I set up the website, had a banner printed, I do the booking, the band rehearses at my house, I own and run the PA. The other guys show up and play and that's pretty much it, and that's all I expect. When we get paid, my first responsibility is to pay my musicians - they get $100 each. Because of all the stuff I do, any further money, up to $200, goes to me. After that we split it evenly. So on a $250 gig they would each get $100 and I get $50 (my fault for booking such a low-paying gig), a $300 splits $100 each, a $400 gig is $100 to each of them and $200 to me, etc.

That's not the only way to do it, but the point is that I set it up when the band first started, everyone agreed to it, and no one feels they've been treated unfairly.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Interesting opinions, about what I expected.

 

[AndyPanda]

Ages ago I was making a living playing full time (keyboardist) and I owned and hauled the PA system. At the end of the night the guitar player would grab his amp and guitar and head for the door (he had an early morning day job). The drummer and I were always the first to arrive and last to leave.

So I told the band that everyone owed me $20 each (per gig) for providing/hauling/setting up/running the PA and that anyone who was there to help me load it in and load it out was exempt ($10 if they missed the load in but helped with the load out). The guitarist was happy to pay me $20 so he could grab his gear and dash - and the drummer was always loading in and out just as much equipment as I was so I exempted him. And the rest of the band started helping me with the load to avoid paying the $20 or kicked me $20 if they had to leave early. It didn't raise much of a fuss as I recall - went pretty smoothly.

 

[40Hz]

I’ve done a lot of contract work and contracted to have a lot of work done.

And on either side of the desk Ive found any negotiating that’s not going to cause bad vibes needs to be done up front rather than after the fact, inless some massive change in the scooe of the engagement occurred. And even then, it’s something that needs to be negotiated as soon as the change in the job description or project requirements changes.

Even under law, if you take too long to seek equitable relief for something the courts aren’t too keen on helping you. The feeling is if it wasn’t important enough to bitch about early, it couldn’t have been bothering you that much.

 

[lfmn16]

Ages ago I was making a living playing full time (keyboardist) and I owned and hauled the PA system. At the end of the night the guitar player would grab his amp and guitar and head for the door (he had an early morning day job). The drummer and I were always the first to arrive and last to leave.

So I told the band that everyone owed me $20 each (per gig) for providing/hauling/setting up/running the PA and that anyone who was there to help me load it in and load it out was exempt ($10 if they missed the load in but helped with the load out). The guitarist was happy to pay me $20 so he could grab his gear and dash - and the drummer was always loading in and out just as much equipment as I was so I exempted him. And the rest of the band started helping me with the load to avoid paying the $20 or kicked me $20 if they had to leave early. It didn't raise much of a fuss as I recall - went pretty smoothly.

One of my bands when I joined told me that the guitar player and his wife take an extra share to provide PA and lights - they set it up, run and tear it down. I wanted to ask how much extra to haul and set up my SVT.

I can't imagine that anyone who has every bought, transported, set up and run PA and lights would begrudge someone a share in order to provide it.

 

[DirtDog]

I agree with those that suggest *some* extra pay or other form of recognition is warranted BUT, as others have said, that ship sailed when you started doing it for “free”. In a sense, your bandmates might not value your contribution because it doesn’t cost them anything.

One avenue of recourse you have is to tell your band mates you’re burning out with those duties and would appreciate if someone else picks up the slack. Then stop doing that stuff. If at that point they insist you take those responsibility back then you have a solid basis to renegotiate pay for the remainder of your tenure.

 

[EastCoastThump]

It's almost never the wrong strategy to be clear about circumstances you find unsustainable. Doesn't matter how long you've been handling particular extra duties. If you're now finding they take all the fun out for you, or just tip the balance toward "I don't wanna do this anymore," then make that clear before it's too late—while there are still options and decisions to make.

There's really no position for your bandmates to take against you saying, "I know I've been carrying X for a while now, but lately it's been wearing on me. I've been considering it carefully, and if I have to keep doing X, it'll end (soon) with me giving y'all my notice. Do we want to put our heads together about ways to split duties more sustainably?"

OTOH, advocating for a particular solution from the moment you raise the problem? ("I've been thinking that wiring up and running PA is a PITA; y'all need to give me an extra cut.") While that *can* work, you usually wade through some stink before you arrive at agreement—and sometimes you just roll everybody in stink w/o ever getting to agreement.

If you really want to keep the band together, but the only solution you'll accept is a fatter cut for you, then you might as well say so. But if you just want to address what's become a joy-killing split of duties, start with the problem, not by insisting from the jump on only one possible solution among many.

 

[JRA]

this band has been 11-12 years in the running and I should have worked all this out much earlier.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Dear friends: Don't let this happen to you! The smartest thing we ever did was hire someone to do sound from the get-go. He goes where we go, gets paid the same as we do.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

Dear friends: Don't let this happen to you! The smartest thing we ever did was hire someone to do sound from the get-go. He goes where we go, gets paid the same as we do.

Glad that works for you. But it's not the only answer for every situation.

In my 3 pc group I also do the sound and lights while playing, however, all 3 members pitch in for setup/teardown and with a cajon rather than drums getting the sound right is a breeze.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Glad that works for you. But it's not the only answer for every situation.

In my 3 pc group I also do the sound and lights while playing, however, all 3 members pitch in for setup/teardown and with a cajon rather than drums getting the sound right is a breeze.

Again, to me the issue is as simple as everyone pitching in to carry heavy stuff, and knowing how to set up the PA. One band I play in is bass, guitar, drums and singer. Drummer sets up while we bring in the cabs. I set up PA cabs in place, and move monitors in front, and the guitarist and I set up our amps and mic stands while the drummer finishes. Then we run all the cables. I would say it is a 30 minute job tops. Everyone knows what they are doing. Same thing with teardown in reverse order.

 

[Ronzo]

Again, to me the issue is as simple as everyone pitching in to carry heavy stuff, and knowing how to set up the PA. One band I play in is bass, guitar, drums and singer. Drummer sets up while we bring in the cabs. I set up PA cabs in place, and move monitors in front, and the guitarist and I set up our amps and mic stands while the drummer finishes. Then we run all the cables. I would say it is a 30 minute job tops. Everyone knows what they are doing. Same thing with teardown in reverse order.

So, the singer does none of that.

“Le plus que c’est change, le plus que c’est la meme chose.”

 

[buldog5151bass]

So, the singer does none of that.

“Le plus que c’est change, le plus que c’est la meme chose.”

LOONNNGGG story. FWIW, she also plays acoustic guitar, flute and sax, with a small amp. But we have everything packed up before her own stuff is packed. I just smile. If we asked her to help, it would just take longer.