Fakin' it - All the way from China......

[bmc]

Outsourcing your construction for the purpose of selling your own products under your name is one thing, and its controlled by a very clear commercial agreement about what they will deliver and what they can do. The IPR is always protected in such agreements. The Chinese are very much aware that they can only succeed if they operate clean businesses, which for the most part, they are. Bad mounth them all you want. The flow of business development in manufacturing is not rushing to the USA. In fact, there are tax incentives for US companies when you move your manufacturing offshore. (I still don't get why the move to defeat it two weeks ago, failed).

If a factory opens up next door to yours and makes replicas of your product and slaps the same name on it, pocketing the money, it's wrong. It's illegal. It's an infringement of your intellectual property rights. Buying products from them is illegal, for one, and second, buyers are helping them undermine you. It's not competition. It's theft.

 

[Korladis]

It's the outright dishonesty I mind.

SX is different. They don't claim to be Fenders, they're SX's, and they say so. They also don't claim to be made in the USA when they're not.

In this case, the name on the headstock is a lie. The "made in the USA" stamp is an even more blatant lie, if anything.

Now, the guitars might be good. Great for the price point. But I don't feel comfortable supporting a lie like that. I own copies, but none of them say claim to be made by the companies they're copying, nor do they claim to be made in the USA when they're not.

 

[Korladis]

note that that doesn't apply to everything that the chinese do. not in the least.

but in the matters of economy, sure. the people want to sell these, and the chinese government says ok. it's free market, to the extreme.

Actually, it's not a free market. The Chinese currency is pegged to the dollar, which keeps it at an artificially low value. If it was not pegged to the dollar, China's rapidly expanding economy would cause its currency's value to go up, which would make importing things from China far less cheap. Labor costs would still be significantly lower than in the US, due to crappy wages and often poor work conditions, but the disparity would not be nearly as ridiculous as it is.

 

[Gus Borden]

I leave this thread to the trolls.

 

[bmc]

 

[Spleenface92]

So, I could actually get in trouble for buying one of these?
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Personally, if I bought a fake instrument, I would never re-sell it, and if I ever gave it away, I'd make sure to irreversably modify it to make sure it could never be passed off as the real thing. I didn't actually know that owning counterfeit items was a felony...

 

[Gus Borden]

Don't worry Jr. I am sure I will still be around, no buttons though sorry, so out will have to make a real contribution to the thread. I know that may prove difficult to you.

 

[Joe.shaffer]

I find it interesting that nobody has sued whomever is making these things. I'm positive that they're aware of their existence. Is it sketchy? Better believe it. Only a matter of time before somebody scoops one of these bad boys up and sells it for double on CL. Buyers beware.

 

[bmc]

Don't worry Jr. I am sure I will still be around, no buttons though sorry, so out will have to make a real contribution to the thread. I know that may prove difficult to you.

Seriously....no need to take this to a personal level. It's against the rules and it's not worth it.

 

[Rico_2212]

Let's get away from the trolling and name calling for a few minutes for another point. Where is the line between conterfeits and copies?
Last week while buying strings at a local music store, I was looking around and saw a copy of a Ric. Now we all know how they are about protecting their designs, and this one, although an outstanding copy, definitely had the MAKERS company name on the headstock and was about €475 or so.
Now if some kid saves his money from his birthday, x-mas, or just doing odd jobs and buys this because he can no way afford a real Ric, is he dishonest? a thief? or just a poor slob who would like to play a bass that looks like the one he saw Geddy playing on "youtube"?
Being in Europe with Asian copies floating around outside US juristiction probably doesn't sit well with Rickenbacker, however in this case they probably have little hope for legal action.
Now I'm not sanctioning these actions, nor am I codemning them, as we have enough threads of bassists showing off their prized "Rickenfakers," however as long as people want something, they will usually find a way to get it.

 

[Eric Perry]

Buy Chinese if you support Chinese labor practices.

That's entirely misleading to this thread. We ALL support Chinese labor practices probably on a daily basis, and that's without buying copies, or counterfeits, or whatever. Sad but true!

Just for reference, my karma is measured in how I treat my fellow human - which is just fine. Thanks.

Same here!

Caveat Emptor.

Yup.

It.must make you feel mighty to attack somebody else's integrity from behind your little computer screen oh defender of the righteous. He didn't build it, advertise it, or sell it. He spent his own hard earned cash at a website than anyone can visit - there are no secret codes, nor was there some dark alley. He took his chances. In fact he has no place in your petty attack b/c he cannot actually defend himself, nor should he have to to the likes of you. What the he!! is it with people like you? If you have a real problem with this site for selling these fakes then go do something about it - don't sit here on your little pedestal casting down your judgements down on good people you don't even know. People like you really get on my nerves.

I'm going to go ahead and +1 this. You didn't start this thread looking for a pi$$ing contest, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people here ARE looking for said contest! Just ignore, em, man!

 

[zenrad]

Buying a rip off Fender is spitting on Leo Fender's grave and undermining your industry.

Somehow I wonder if Leo would even care. Now a counterfeit G&L, well, THAT'S another story.

 

[Gus Borden]

Look, obviously, what the site does is illegal. But I opened this discussion for a more intelligent discourse to take place.

I used my friend's experience as an example, not to create an opportunity for everyone (obviously only certain everyones) to jump up and down calling it illegal. I was upset by this because he doesn't need to be insulted b/c he was good enough to provide an actual real experience for everyone to see actually occur, allowing this to be real, not suspect as to whether or not you'd even see what you paid for.

OBVIOUSLY if you buy from an illegal vendor you are now perpetuating the whole scheme. Move on. If there is nothing real and purposeful to discuss then leave your comments at the door. B/C a pissing match is not what this is about. I will still be here checking out this thread, but I am not going to feed the trolls anymore - that was my own mistake.

 

[SnakeKappele]

Outsourcing your construction for the purpose of selling your own products under your name is one thing, and its controlled by a very clear commercial agreement about what they will deliver and what they can do. The IPR is always protected in such agreements. The Chinese are very much aware that they can only succeed if they operate clean businesses, which for the most part, they are. Bad mounth them all you want. The flow of business development in manufacturing is not rushing to the USA. In fact, there are tax incentives for US companies when you move your manufacturing offshore. (I still don't get why the move to defeat it two weeks ago, failed).

If a factory opens up next door to yours and makes replicas of your product and slaps the same name on it, pocketing the money, it's wrong. It's illegal. It's an infringement of your intellectual property rights. Buying products from them is illegal, for one, and second, buyers are helping them undermine you. It's not competition. It's theft.

+1

 

[bmc]

I'm going to apologize for my comments, Gus. They were inflamatory.

Please back off on the name calling.

 

[ProfGumby]

It definitely sux. I personally tend to be very sceptical when buying, but know I have read enough posts where people have gotten screwed on fakes. I think it's actually good that this thread may get a lot of reads - thereby possibly raising awareness of what to look for in a fake. While my bud will end up stuck with his fake b/c he would not feel comfortable with selling it, he is definitely the minority. I hope he likes it!

Somebody mentioned earlier that this draws a fine line that could be crossed where SX or the like could be drawn in the same light, but I can't see it, they are offering their version of a P bas or Jazz bass, etc.... if they could be considered a counterfeit then so could the likes of high end builders who make their own versions if a P or a Jazz. Personally I'd have no issue spending my dollars with SX.

I jokingly tossed that tidbit out. Probably should not have, and definitely should have been more clear on that point.

I own 3 SX basses right now and have had 5 others. I own a VM Squier and what's left of a CV Jazz, with some MIM Fender stuck on the end of it.

On to another thought brought up in this thread...

I do not support counterfeiting in any way shape or form. I also am leery of prosecution of someone for merely owning a counterfeit guitar or bass. If someone unwittingly buys one, and later gets caught with one, they should be prosecuted?

Now a guy who buys one (or several) then tries to pass them off as something they are not...that is an issue.

Treating the symptom never works, treating the cause does work. The problem is, it is always more difficult, more expensive to nail the producer.

And as has been said before, if these companies would do what is required to not infringe on a copyright, they would probably make a fine instrument.

 

[Eric Perry]

I do not support counterfeiting in any way shape or form. I also am leery of prosecution of someone for merely owning a counterfeit guitar or bass. If someone unwittingly buys one, and later gets caught with one, they should be prosecuted?...

Of course not. I got shafted years ago buying a Movado Esperanza off e-Bay. The pictures looked very real, and the price was good, but not so good I'd expect a shafting. Also, the seller had an almost perfect feedback rating. I didn't even know it was a fake until the following year when I brought it to my Movado dealer to have the battery replaced.

Should I be prosecuted for that? Of course not. I'd like to think anyone that says yes is a certifiable loon!

The good in me would like to believe that the seller didn't know it was a fake either, but who knows.

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Looks like a half decent guitar for the cash he paid. However, because of what it is, I'd rather spend my money on an Epiphone LP, knowing at least my cash didn't go to finance a company like this. And I'd sleep better at night.
I've also never understood the guys that buy things like this(no offense intended to your friend), nor those that slap Fender stickers on Squiers/partscasters. You might be fooling everyone else, but you're still not playing a Fender/Gibson. And you know it, if no one else does. Doesn't really seem worth it, to me at least.
MHO.

All too often, musicians will judge others by the gear they have. The best guitarist I know plays with an Aria Pro-II guitar. I've heard people dissing him, just because of that, but he certainly doesn't need a Fender or Gibson to rock out, and while it doesn't bother him, you do get people who are bothered by it and want to be seen to fit the bill by having high end gear. If they can't afford it, they can get by with a new sticker on the headstock.

Not saying it's right, just a perspective.

I've never used a fake guitar like these, but I have used some 70's MIJ fender clones (Aria's).

 

[ericw]

Popcorn, anyone?

Urville Redenbacher's?

 

[Gus Borden]

The reality, the producers of the counterfeits need to be stopped, but the reality is also that (much like the drug wars we hear so much about) by the time they are catching them, the problem is epidemic (The only term I can think of that gets the point across) - meaning its so large that they bust one producer, but there are 5 or 10 or 15 others out there. One just takes it's place. Doesn't make it right, just a reality. Go and look at that site. It's MASSIVE. As someone else said - they counterfeit everything, it isn't just musical instruments. And lets face it - they are there because there is a demand for them. When my friend and I came across this site we were both freaked out by it - what the hell? How are they doing it?