Fakin' it - All the way from China......

[electracoyote]

I flirted with a Chinese Les Paul knock off once. I wanted the look and something that was a halfway decent player, but I didn't want to go $2K in the hole for it.

I found a Chinese internet vendor site. A nice looking white LP Custom clone caught my eye, complete with correct headstock and Gibson logo.

Long story short, the guitar was a piece of crap, and I lost $150.00 shipping the thing back. That was after almost 2 months of wondering if my credit card security team was going to be successful extracting a refund.

It comes down to your standards, needs, taste, and whether or not you feel lucky.

 

[timmus]

Having been in the amp repair business for years, it becoming more and more common place to see counterfeit parts coming out of the orient which is frustrating at best and expensive (to me) at the very least…and these parts are sometimes sold by very reputable dealers, dealers that have been in business for many decades…

For example, I repaired a bass amp a year or two ago (GK RB800) and it had blown output transistors, 8 of them plus ancillary parts around the amp…I replaced them all, got it running and then within a few minutes one blew taking the rest of that side with it. I replaced them at more cost to me…got it running again and same thing happened again…by this time I was fit to be tied.

I got on a repair forum that I am a regular on and started asking questions…one of the techs there asked if I knew for sure that they were “real” parts or counterfeits as he had been getting some counterfeit power devices from some of his suppliers…and to look at these parts on the outside, there was no way to tell that these were any different from the original manufacturer's parts.

I called the dealer (a very well known and high quality vender) and my salesperson asked me to send them all back and they would reimburse me or replace them…

I found out later in talking with him that they had sent out several samples for testing and found that they were indeed counterfeits. They cleared out their inventory of these parts and returned all to their supplier.

So all this to say that counterfeiting is very real and costly (this cost me several hours of labor)…I suspect there are many other times when I have suspicious failures of work already done that may have been counterfeit parts as well…I have to eat it as I have a warranty to honor…

Interesting read here:

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[zenrad]

Having been in the amp repair business for years, it becoming more and more common place to see counterfeit parts coming out of the orient which is frustrating at best and expensive (to me) at the very least…and these parts are sometimes sold by very reputable dealers, dealers that have been in business for many decades…

For example, I repaired a bass amp a year or two ago (GK RB800) and it had blown output transistors, 8 of them plus ancillary parts around the amp…I replaced them all, got it running and then within a few minutes one blew taking the rest of that side with it. I replaced them at more cost to me…got it running again and same thing happened again…by this time I was fit to be tied.

I got on a repair forum that I am a regular on and started asking questions…one of the techs there asked if I knew for sure that they were “real” parts or counterfeits as he had been getting some counterfeit power devices from some of his suppliers…

I called the dealer (a very well known and high quality vender) and my salesperson asked me to send them all back and they would reimburse me or replace them…

I found out later in talking with him that they had sent out several samples for testing and found that they were indeed counterfeits. They cleared out their inventory of these parts and returned all to their supplier.

So all this to say that counterfeiting is very real and costly (this cost me several hours of labor)…I suspect there are many other times when I have suspicious failures of work already done that may have been counterfeit parts as well…I have to eat it as I have a warranty to honor…

Interesting read here:

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You were in possession of counterfeit parts.

Hands up. You're under arrest.

 

[Mr wiggl3s]

Yeah, I'm totally gonna buy one of those Rockenbauckers, or whatever the hell they're calling them.

Seriously. I'll keep you guys posted if you'd like?

Ya man, i was wondering about them myself.

 

[timmus]

You were in possession of counterfeit parts.

Hands up. You're under arrest.

nope... sent 'em back

 

[grimniggzy]

haha nice
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[kenstee]

To be honest, I think there's not a huge difference (ethics-wise) between these and Rondo-type instruments which are made to look exactly like Strats, J & P Basses, Les Pauls, etc. Obviously biggest difference is not misrepresenting the brand name to the consumer - which is over the top. But, in reality, the designs, etc (the intellectual property) are totally ripped-off in both situations.

 

[kenstee]

It serves Gibson right, if anything. The company is horrible overpriced and ironically, they fool their customers by making them believe that a more expensive guitar means more quality, when we all know Gibson are very well known for their quality problems. And I say problems because if you're charging 2K, being conservative here, for an instrument, it better be damn perfect.

Thus, Gibson can't complain about people stealing money. As for Rickenbackers, the copies are horrendous and although it is a family business and I believe they work hard, charging 2K for their instruments, just because it says Rickenbacker, is ridiculous.

Dude, this is one lame argument.

It doesn't serve anybody right to rip-off their logo and ideas. If you don't want to buy a Gibson or Rick then don't buy it. That's your prerogative. What they charge is their business. You can always choose not to buy it if you feel it is overpriced. That's the marketplace.

Are you in a band? Do you record? If people feel some songs on a particular album you cut are not up to par then it's OK (according to your philosophy) if people pirate your stuff and deprive you from making any money from it.

 

[kenstee]

Jeez you all seem to be infallible. Whatever, he got what he got, and you seem to only be content to sleep at night if you can label him a criminal.

I look to bring attention to something and give us all something to talk about and it turns into this.

I find TB less and less welcoming when its so easy to cast stones from anonymity.

Gus, don't let these mindless idiots get to you. You made a very interesting and provocative post. Remember, a number of people here get all mental over which string brands are best or whether to play with a pick or not. Just laugh at the absurdity of all of it.

 

[zenrad]

To be honest, I think there's not a huge difference (ethics-wise) between these and Rondo-type instruments which are made to look exactly like Strats, J & P Basses, Les Pauls, etc. Obviously biggest difference is not misrepresenting the brand name to the consumer - which is over the top. But, in reality, the designs, etc (the intellectual property) are totally ripped-off in both situations.

Then you'd have to include Sadowsky and Lakland just for starters.

 

[electracoyote]

To be honest, I think there's not a huge difference (ethics-wise) between these and Rondo-type instruments which are made to look exactly like Strats, J & P Basses, Les Pauls, etc. Obviously biggest difference is not misrepresenting the brand name to the consumer - which is over the top. But, in reality, the designs, etc (the intellectual property) are totally ripped-off in both situations.

I don't mean to devalue your opinion, but this issue has been through the courts and pretty much settled.

As with all intellectual property disputes, there has to be an allowance of some sort for how much two guitars can look alike, and when it crosses the line into trademark infringement.

The courts long ago decided the headstock is where they will draw the line. Everything else is fair game and can't be considered theft of intellectual property, but the headstock design, and obviously company logo, are protected.

Which is why you see the Strat and Precision bodies everywhere (arguably the most copied design in stringed instruments), but the headstocks have been altered. And this is the case with knock-off instruments made here in the USA just as much as instruments made anywhere else.

 

[Gus Borden]

UGh. SX, Sadowsky, LAkeland are riffing off an idea. THese guys are pirating the name and likeness and doing their best to pass it off. BIG difference.

I think, if you go to this site and you can't see that they are fakes then you are blind, but it is still not good what they are doing.

Thanks kenstee, yea - I got annoyed at first, but that's done, and I'm past it.

 

[Spinal Tapper]

Do the pics not load on these pages for anyone else? Wonder if it's my firewall...

 

[Jim Dep]

I want to know how an interesting thread goes from a chat about some knock-off chinese gear, to a morality mud fight?

Because the issue has everything to do with morals. Morality triggers emotions. If you don't have a conscious, buying from this bogus company won't bother you.

I could start an "interesting chat" somewhere about whether or not a mosque should be built near Ground Zero. The criteria is that I don't want any "trolls" to bring up morality or have this turn into a "mudfight".
Let's keep this conversation on a high level, ladies and gentlemen.

Why don't we just open another can of worms and get the popcorn ready.

 

[zenrad]

UGh. SX, Sadowsky, LAkeland are riffing off an idea. THese guys are pirating the name and likeness and doing their best to pass it off. BIG difference.

I think, if you go to this site and you can't see that they are fakes then you are blind, but it is still not good what they are doing.

Thanks kenstee, yea - I got annoyed at first, but that's done, and I'm past it.

I have no issues with Lakland or Sadowsky, I was trying to point out that they're also basing their instruments on an existing design and no one seems to have any problems with them looking exactly like (or very close) to a Fender design.

 

[Jim Dep]

I have no issues with Lakland or Sadowsky, I was trying to point out that they're also basing their instruments on an existing design and no one seems to have any problems with them looking exactly like (or very close) to a Fender design.

They are not counterfeits. Most bass companies copy designs from each other. There is a big difference!

 

[zenrad]

They are not counterfeits. Most bass companies copy designs from each other. There is a big difference!

I just said I don't have an issue with it!

I know there's a difference. Read the post I responded to.

This is the strangest thread. People on either side waiting to pounce, even if you agree with them.

 

[Spinal Tapper]

So I'm assuming the photos on the Tradetang website work for you all?

 

[kenstee]

People on either side waiting to pounce, even if you agree with them.

LOL! Old story, some people just can't take "Yes" for an answer......

 

[Eric Perry]

If you don't have a conscious, buying from this bogus company won't bother you...