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Fakin' it - All the way from China......

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#201
Gus - I can understand your friend's motivation in getting his, I think...if I could afford to (for lack of a better way of putting it, and this is not a judgment of your friend either) 'waste' the money on one, I might consider getting one of their 'Rics', maybe...not 'cause I expect it to be a replacement for the real Ric that I can't afford, not 'cause I expect a finely-crafted bass for 1/10th the cost of the real thing, but simply 'cause of what it is...a counterfeit, a curiosity. In the end I probably wouldn't, due partly to not wanting to support such a business and the whole legality of owning one, but in the same way I subbed this thread to begin with, I think I can understand the somewhat-perverse attraction of owning one of these simply for what it is.

And a respectful BTW - you did ask for 'discussion' on this...be careful what you wish for...
 
#203
Why don't we ask these people if they care???? It is easy to say-stick it to the man, screw the corporate fat cats. Lets put a face to the real people that get hurt.

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#204
My name is Mudd said:
Gus - I can understand your friend's motivation in getting his, I think...if I could afford to (for lack of a better way of putting it, and this is not a judgment of your friend either) 'waste' the money on one, I might consider getting one of their 'Rics', maybe...not 'cause I expect it to be a replacement for the real Ric that I can't afford, not 'cause I expect a finely-crafted bass for 1/10th the cost of the real thing, but simply 'cause of what it is...a counterfeit, a curiosity. In the end I probably wouldn't, due partly to not wanting to support such a business and the whole legality of owning one, but in the same way I subbed this thread to begin with, I think I can understand the somewhat-perverse attraction of owning one of these simply for what it is.

And a respectful BTW - you did ask for 'discussion' on this...be careful what you wish for...
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I hear you - but I suppose there is a fine line between discussion and mudslinging w/this kind of topic... :D

Yea. I hear you again. I mean he managed to get a solid, functional guitar that he says sounds good - so lucky him, no wasted money. He asked me if I would buy - but I am not in a place right now where I could gamble the money - I also have my own set of issues with whether or not to buy from this site.

On one hand, I didn't build it or put it up for sale, and I'm not looking to re-sell it and misrepresent it. So what am I really doing wrong?

On the other hand, I don't want to spend my money on this site, thereby perpetuating the whole process and contributing to fraud.

For me, there is no purchase to be made. Someone else wants to? That's their decision and their chance to take.
 
#205
GUS,
Thanks for posting a great thread!!! Not so much the discussion for me but being exposed to counterfeit/copied equipment. I have heard of copies but didn't know what to look for and didn't realize that it was so easy to order a fake.

Can we skip the moral debate for a post or two and talk how to identify counterfeits easier??:ninja:
 
#208
I suppose in this particular case, when you are looking at a "brand new Gibson" for $300 - $400 verses the $3K (or whatever it actually is - I just know it's a 4 digit # that doesn't start with a 1) that they sell for on MF.com or your local GC - that's a pretty good tip off. There is a link a page or two back to a bust and in there it had some tips to look out for.
 
#212
SnakeKappele said:
If they put FORD on them... YES. Are you nuts?
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Its all the same whether the name is on it or not. The entire design is an intellectual property, not just the name.

So by your logic Furd (or Gibsun) is okay but Gibson is not.

Again, its a violation of OUR laws that's taking place in ANOTHER country. It isn't OUR country's place to tell them what to do with their laws, much as it isn't China's place to tell us to be socialists.
 
#213
Greetings from the North,

At one time I had thought about getting one of the fake Rics with the Jazz pups as a project bass since I had mangled one back in the day trying to get it to be like Roger Glovers in Deep Purple back in Machine Head days but.... I can't turn my back on the fact that there are real people losing work across North America as the manufacturing base is getting gutted. I know everythings going global blah blah blah and yes I took freshman economics too.... but I don't have to go along with it. I've decided to purchase what I can that's manufactured in North America knowing full well that sometimes parts may come from off shore.

Rezdog
 
#214
Florox said:
... As for Rickenbackers, the copies are horrendous and although it is a family business and I believe they work hard, charging 2K for their instruments, just because it says Rickenbacker, is ridiculous.
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You aren't paying for the name. You are paying for the image, advertising, legal dept, endorsees, manufactiring costs, etc.

I'll be the first to admit, I'll probably never own anything more expensive than my MIM Squier. I would love to own a real Fender, G&L (even take a tribute), Rick, Lakland, etc. Personally, I would rather build up what I have than buy something that will still probably need work, i.e. those copies.

And to everyone saying how it's the manufacturer's fault for giving them a way to make a copy, :scowl:

Well, my analogy may be too over the top...

Here's an ok one: that's like saying it's ok that the homeless steal because we have trained them to survive.

CARROTS!:hiding:
 
#215
Beersurgeon said:
Can we skip the moral debate for a post or two and talk how to identify counterfeits easier??
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It's interesting that, often, what starts as a moral issue becomes a legal issue.

A similar situation arose in the 70's with a little Japanese company called Ibanez.

They were making copies, quite a few of the Gibson flagship acoustic and electric models, almost perfect in every respect in terms of looks and quality, right down to the headstock. Indeed, many people stateside found them as good or better than the original, and, of course, at a much lower price.

Because of our close commercial and trade ties to Japan, international law actually had teeth and exisiting trademark infringement laws applied. The Japanese put the clampdown on Ibanez, and thus ended the company's "lawsuit era."

Until we develop that kind of trade and commercial respect with China, the clones will keep coming.

Interesting side note: Ibanez didn't fold when they lost their ability to clone U.S. trademarked guitars, but started their own line of high-quality, innovative guitars and basses, and we know the rest of the story.
 
#216
Rezdog - I hear ya.

And this here to follow is aside from Tradetang. Our industrial sector is being gutted b/c the government lifted the regulations and restrictions that prevented companies from doing so in the first place. This allowed them to set up production overseas and get crazy cheap labor in place of American jobs. The corporations all took advantage and didn't look back. Now we sit wondering if the market will ever bounce back, but there is no regulation or law that is requiring these corporations to bring jobs back. We have them to thank.

Tradetang - and other similar entities - are just an insult to injury. It's like a slap in the face, these Chinese companies are turning around with the knowledge and production techniques American companies gave them and giving us the high one.
 
#218
Rezdog said:
I've decided to purchase what I can that's manufactured in North America knowing full well that sometimes parts may come from off shore.
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If I could afford to, I'd only buy from inside-the-border builders, but until such time as I hit the lottery big, that just isn't going to happen.

We live in a global economy now, and the fact that my basses are a US label but built overseas by builders chosen by the parent label are as close as I can afford to do.
 
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