Fakin' it - All the way from China......

[Jim Dep]

Now if you said there is a segment of the Chinese industry that has no problem counterfeiting a whole mess of different products and passing them off as the real deal, then I would say: "nail on the head".

Ok, from what I have read and heard, I believe there is a segment of the Chinese industry that has no problem counterfeiting a whole mess of different products and passing them off as the real deal.

I believe it is also true that the Chinese government could do more to prosecute the perpetrators.

 

[Johnius]

Ok, from what I have read and heard, I believe there is a segment of the Chinese industry that has no problem counterfeiting a whole mess of different products and passing them off as the real deal.

I believe it is also true that the Chinese government could do more to prosecute the perpetrators.

You have just won the Understatement of the Week Award.

 

[Gus Borden]

Ok, from what I have read and heard, I believe there is a segment of the Chinese industry that has no problem counterfeiting a whole mess of different products and passing them off as the real deal.

I believe it is also true that the Chinese government could do more to prosecute the perpetrators.

Thanks, better.

Oh the Chinese gov't most definitely turns a blind eye. I have to wonder if that counterfeit ring bust that has been linked a few times here is not just to look good and save face for the gov't. Like a sacrifice to make it look like they are cracking down.

 

[Jim Dep]

Thanks, better.

Oh the Chinese gov't most definitely turns a blind eye. I have to wonder if that counterfeit ring bust that has been linked a few times here is not just to look good and save face for the gov't. Like a sacrifice to make it look like they are cracking down.

Agreed. I would think that the Chinese people who care about their heritage and culture would be deeply offended by the Chinese Government's blind eye to this blatant corruption.

 

[abarson]

That is pretty freaking hot!

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[Gus Borden]

Agreed. I would think that the Chinese people who care about their heritage and culture would be deeply offended by the Chinese Government's blind eye to this blatant corruption.

I think the ones that know it are offended by it - but the Chinese gov't is pretty controlling. I watched a documentary a few years ago, do you realize that if you type "tiananmen square" into a google window in China, you get tourism links? They control the content, here you get the obvious, a multitude of links about the 1989 massacre - over there there is a whole generation who are totally unaware of it. Absolutely insane.

 

[SnakeKappele]

Why oh why do we have to pay them???

You are probably right. But I would still love to know if the companies who hold the licensing agreements with American companies to produce the second tier products (i.e. Squier, Epi, etc) are also producing counterfeits - or some similar situation. I would love to see a comparison between say a "Gibsun Les Paul" and an Epi Les Paul.

I remember reading an article years ago about a watch manufacturer in Taiwan who made watches for name brand companies and, in his down time, made counterfeit watches. He bragged to the reporter that he could make him anything he wanted and he wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The government didn't do anything about it because he made alot of money and "shared" it.

I imagine it comes down to two things:
1. The companies contracting the work need to watch the builders to ensure they don't try counterfeiting.

2. If there is enough demand for the real product, the builders will not need to counterfeit to keep working.

 

[iriegnome]

Just to be clear on my previous statement about "quietly making these purchases". That was what someone else had stated about all this. I mearly repeated it. I did not mean to imply in any way that I agree with this. People or businesses deserve to be paid for what is theirs. Gibson should not be ripped off, nor should Nino Valenti, what is the difference? None.

 

[electracoyote]

The last poll I saw was of middle management. There was a big thread about it last winter. A lot of members that know people that work in the manufacturing part say they love their jobs. The turn over rate for workers is very low, not so for mid management. I have been to two of the factory's. At the Memphis plant I had a chance to hang around during a lunch break and BS with some of the guys, they enjoyed their jobs. A company that has happy workers and unhappy mid management is doing the right thing in my book.

Similar story here with the Bozeman, Montana acoustic factory. I'm up there several times a year and always pop in for a visit. I talk to no disgruntled employees on the line making those beautiful Hummingbirds and Doves.

 

[dminer]

The Made in USA on the headstock reminds me of a story my father use to tell us...he was a paratrooper and was stationed in Japan after his service in Korea...we joined him there in 54. His story was that there was a little town in Japan that had produced toys for decades...lots of mom and pop industries.

Apparently after the war they were having a hard time selling their toys because Made in Japan was a joke and items with that label were considered inferior and cheap junk. What did they do? They changed the name of their town to Usa and started stamping Made in Usa on their toys. Apparently sales soared and so did the town's economy! Of course, this was the late 40's early 50's so I'm sure that trademarks and infringements were overlooked on such a small scale and we were trying to rebuild the Japanese economy as well.

I'm not trying to stir up anything else here, I just always thought that it was an interesting tidbit and slightly relevant to this discussion.

 

[Gus Borden]

I suppose it's basically a tale of ingenuity fueled by survival. Imagine that, they changed the name of the town to USA. Interesting indeed!

 

[My name is Mudd]

Going all the way back to pg 1...Gus asked if [This invalid link has been removed] was a copy of something 'real' - I think I just found the original on Invalid Link Removed.

 

[totallyfrozen]

Okay. My bud sent photos as well as the link to what he purchased. Said it looks, feels and sounds good - we had a laugh - all the paperwork in the case actually says "Gibson" - crazy. He said the only thing was that the knobs were cheap. But aside from that he said all was cool. Keep in mind - $375 w/shipping for a copy of a $4K guitar. It's a "Gibson Les Paul Custom"

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Are there differences? I'm sure, but you know that going in...

Photos:

Now I'm not saying buy from them. I'm not even saying I will buy from them. But you asked for photos and an update, so there we have it. You decide what to think...

What happened to the pics? It's hard to discuss the quality of the guitar if we can't see the pics.
Someone said the "Gibson" logo could look like "Gibsun". I wanted to take a look.

 

[totallyfrozen]

Going all the way back to pg 1...Gus asked if [This invalid link has been removed] was a copy of something 'real' - I think I just found the original on Invalid Link Removed.

Looks like the headstock is backwards. Am I just going cross-eyed?

 

[totallyfrozen]

It serves Gibson right, if anything. The company is horrible overpriced and ironically, they fool their customers by making them believe that a more expensive guitar means more quality, when we all know Gibson are very well known for their quality problems. And I say problems because if you're charging 2K, being conservative here, for an instrument, it better be damn perfect.

Thus, Gibson can't complain about people stealing money. As for Rickenbackers, the copies are horrendous and although it is a family business and I believe they work hard, charging 2K for their instruments, just because it says Rickenbacker, is ridiculous.

If you can't afford it, well...buy a Squire. Resenting a company because they price their merchadise out of your range is kinda silly. It isn't wrong for them to do. If you want the goods, get more money--or settle for lesser goods.
Just because you don't have the green to pay for the stuff, doesn't mean that someone should punish them or steal it from them. It just means you need to earn more green.
Can't afford a Ric? That gets filed under "Your Fault".

 

[My name is Mudd]

Looks like the headstock is backwards. Am I just going cross-eyed?

That may be a workaround to avoid legal action, although I doubt that TradeTang is too concerned about such. Professionally, I've has some experience with protected shapes/forms/images, and I believe that the mirrored headstock could possibly be a reasonable defense against counterfeit allegations in court...note that I am NOT an attorney nor do I have specific training in copywrite law, and I could be wrong in this.

Someone said the "Gibson" logo could look like "Gibsun". I wanted to take a look.

Here

 

[ProfGumby]

They are not counterfeits. Most bass companies copy designs from each other. There is a big difference!

Add to that, just how many functional, usable designs can there be? And I'd like to point out, almost every acoustic guitar body looks exactly like every other one. Is Martin Ripping of Gibson or is Fender ripping off Taylor?

There are laws that are enforced if one makes a jazz type bass for example. SX Is not exactly the same as Fender (nor Sadowski, Lakland etc..) Nor are any of these entities putting Fender ( or Funder or Fenner or any such deal in the same font) or made in America or fake serial #s.

There is a huge difference.

 

[ProfGumby]

If you can't afford it, well...buy a Squire. Resenting a company because they price their merchadise out of your range is kinda silly. It isn't wrong for them to do. If you want the goods, get more money--or settle for lesser goods.
Just because you don't have the green to pay for the stuff, doesn't mean that someone should punish them or steal it from them. It just means you need to earn more green.
Can't afford a Ric? That gets filed under "Your Fault".

Agreed!

There is a reason Gibson has Epiphone and Fender has Squier and others have their import line.

But then, an Epiphone is not a Gibson nor is a Squier a Fender, They are different and the companies have offered a price pointed option of their main lines.

Many here have said, over and over an Epi T Bird does not play like or feel like or sound like a Gibson T Bird.

As to affording what one wants, many times if a guy would save a little longer or get a part time job to afford the bass of choice there would not be this issue. I also remember reading a post here that adjusted for inflation, new Fenders are less expensive now than back in the early 70's.

Hell, I would love it if a T Bird Studio was about 300 bucks today! Or if a MIA Fender was priced the same. But it ain't happening unless I buy a stolen one of a meth addict.....

 

[KTFunkAlive]

Guys, There just knock-offs, it's not that big a deal. You'd have to have been living on Mars for the past 30 years to not realize that EVERYTHING (purses, watches, clothing, golf clubs, sunglasses, etc) is available in a knock-off.

Is it wrong? Sure, but it's everywhere and it's not going to change.

When you see a girl walking with a "Prada" or "Coach" bag over her shoulder it's usually not real, but I'm sure that hasn't hurt sales for Prada or Coach, in fact it may even help.

FWIW if I could lay my hands on that Fodera Emperor and it looked as good in real life as in the picture, I'd grab it. But.. I'd never try to sell it as the real deal.

 

[ProfGumby]

Why don't we ask these people if they care???? It is easy to say-stick it to the man, screw the corporate fat cats. Lets put a face to the real people that get hurt.

Cool pics!