Fakin' it - All the way from China......

[SnakeKappele]

I would imagine having one of these would be like having a copy of a movie; as long as you are not trying to profit off of it, they would not prosecute.

There is a big difference between getting taken and trying to take someone else.

 

[Gus Borden]

Looks like a half decent guitar for the cash he paid. However, because of what it is, I'd rather spend my money on an Epiphone LP, knowing at least my cash didn't go to finance a company like this. And I'd sleep better at night.
I've also never understood the guys that buy things like this(no offense intended to your friend), nor those that slap Fender stickers on Squiers/partscasters. You might be fooling everyone else, but you're still not playing a Fender/Gibson. And you know it, if no one else does. Doesn't really seem worth it, to me at least.
MHO.

I hear you, but you have to realize (well you don't have to) that my friend was never going to buy a $4K Les Paul, and is never going to say hey check out my Les Paul, he'd be the first to admit it was not real. We don't have a thing for name brands. So for him, I hope it is decent and plays well.

 

[Gus Borden]

I would imagine having one of these would be like having a copy of a movie; as long as you are not trying to profit off of it, they would not prosecute.

There is a big difference between getting taken and trying to take someone else.

+ 1

Now if you want to sell your copy as a genuine article, you get what you deserve.

 

[jp58]

This is not global capitalism, it is copyright and trademark infringement. It is criminal and it is wrong.

Wrong. Its not criminal at all. And this is how capitalism works. Someone comes up with an idea, then someone makes it better/cheaper/faster. All cars operate the same way, so should Ford be able to sue all other car manufacturer's for stealing their design or the production line way of manufacturing?

^^^This. And just because the government where the crime is being committed doesn't prosecute the criminals for their wrongdoing, doesn't make it right...or legal.

Right and wrong is subjective. While I have no intention of purchasing this product, others do. As long as no one tries to sell it as a real Fender, I have no issue with someone having a copy in their basement that they play for their own satisfaction.

It certainly isn't right - no argument there. However, what is "legal" is dependent on the laws of whatever nation you live in. What those counterfeiters are doing isn't technically "illegal" because there are no international laws regulating it and stopping them from copying designs. If they tried that here in the US, it would be illegal copyright infringement. But trademarks filed with the US government aren't applicable to China, thus you can't make the argument that it's illegal and thus no legal action has been taken so far.

That, again, doesn't make what they're doing right, but I thought a little clarification was needed on the legality of it.

+1
If they aren't making them on US soil, or aren't actively seling them here, then the US can't do anything about it. They are in China so they follow Chinese law, not ours. We don't need to be the world police anyways.

 

[SnakeKappele]

Wrong. Its not criminal at all. And this is how capitalism works. Someone comes up with an idea, then someone makes it better/cheaper/faster. All cars operate the same way, so should Ford be able to sue all other car manufacturer's for stealing their design or the production line way of manufacturing?

If they put FORD on them... YES. Are you nuts?

 

[Gus Borden]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Obviously it is an issue in China.

 

[M.R. Ogle]

No, it's just wrong.

In any country, on any level, in any culture, it's morally wrong to intentionally misrepresent your wares as someone else's highly-valued product for profit.

Whether or not it's illegal is a question of jurisdiction and the weighed risks of prosecution.

It's not just guitars.... this is an issue we have not yet come to terms with in this global economy. However, and company that outsources production to China and doesn't EXPECT to get their designs ripped off is simply foolish and willfully ignorant.

 

[crobasster]

I had something to write because I'm in love with instruments and I wouldn't like to get ripped off with some counterfeit,but it needs to be said that many companies (regardless which) are responsible for this situation due to globalization and transfering the technology and knowhow in asian country which brings to a situation of having also,beside brand named factories,many counterfeit workshops and small factories.
And the reason of them being possible to maintiain still is that they don't bather to much the big companies,but in fact,making them more and more attractive,just like a sort of free advertising.

 

[Florox]

It serves Gibson right, if anything. The company is horrible overpriced and ironically, they fool their customers by making them believe that a more expensive guitar means more quality, when we all know Gibson are very well known for their quality problems. And I say problems because if you're charging 2K, being conservative here, for an instrument, it better be damn perfect.

Thus, Gibson can't complain about people stealing money. As for Rickenbackers, the copies are horrendous and although it is a family business and I believe they work hard, charging 2K for their instruments, just because it says Rickenbacker, is ridiculous.

 

[JMac- Wiskerface Designs]

I want to know how an interesting thread goes from a chat about some knock-off chinese gear, to a morality mud fight?

Any way, back to subject. All of this counterfitting probably goes on more than we realize. Who's to say any of us around here haven't purchased one of these clones at some point and didn't even know it(Gent mentioning the watch earlier in the thread). At any rate I am sure the companies who's gear is being copied, are aware of this site and all the goodies on it. Most of these companies have a legal team that look for rabbits like this to chase, and if there was anything that could be done about it they would.
I think that if someone wants to buy a guitar or bass from these guys then that would be their choice. I mean it is their money that they made, so let them do what they wish with it.
I think this is a great thread to kind of give us a vision as to whats out there and what we should look for in buying high end gear. I am sure the best of us have been reamed at some point in our life by some crook, so a heads up on what is out there allways helps.
Thanks Gus1894. I get the point of the thread, and appreciate it.

 

[Gus Borden]

As I said before - and it doesn't make the process right - what did our "proud" American companies expect when they decided to F their own neighbors and export the work in favor of cheap labor oversees? They gave them what they needed.

 

[MikeBass]

I owned a Fodera Matt Garrison. In fact I've owned 4 Fodera's over the years.
Could I ever afford another one??? Not by a long shot.
Even used, not by a long shot.

Would I buy a knock-off like the one on the site?? Maybe for giggles and my own amusment. But not to try and capture the allure of owning another "real" one.

How funny would a youtube video be of playing one and turning around and smashing the hell out of it??? The comments alone would be a riot to read- all the people freaking out because you smashed a $10K bass

And I would never think of trying to pass it off re-selling as a "real" Fodera.
Unless I was trading it in to Guitar Center...

 

[hdracer]

I hear you, but you have to realize (well you don't have to) that my friend was never going to buy a $4K Les Paul, and is never going to say hey check out my Les Paul, he'd be the first to admit it was not real. We don't have a thing for name brands. So for him, I hope it is decent and plays well.

I just have to ask, Then why didn't he buy a Epiphone? You can get a very nice Epi for around $500.00 new.

He wanted the Gibson name.........

 

[FunkySpoo]

I've always wanted to try one but have always worried about getting pipped off... I'm curious if anyone has had good dealings with tradetang.

Being pipped off risses me off

 

[Spleenface92]

How funny would a youtube video be of playing one and turning around and smashing the hell out of it??? The comments alone would be a riot to read- all the people freaking out because you smashed a $10K bass

This. It'd be so funny to do...but I get enough hate on my youtube channel as it is.....

Unless I was trading it in to Guitar Center...

Yeah, they tried to tell me they could only sell my katana bass for $120....it's vintage! That alone adds at least $500 to the price tag, and it's got mojo!

 

[maxiegrant]

I visited China about 4 years ago. They had street vendors with all kinds of unbelievable cheap crap, and they REALLY WOULD surround you shouting LOLEX LOLEX LOLEX LOLEX. I was on a tour with a martial arts school, there were about 130 of us, and we got very heartily sick indeed of the constant fending-off of these vendors.

The police in Beijing would periodically show up and chase them off, but they were only going through the motions, as there were way more of the street vendors than there were police. As soon as they were out of sight, the vendors would re-appear again, lolex lolex lolex. I'm not making it up, that is EXACTLY what we heard.

But the funniest part was being warned by one of our tour guides to beware of the fake fakes, and that this or that store had the genuine fake article.

We visited a jewelry shop and a jade factory, and the stuff that people paid lots of money for in those places they ended up regretting -- someone's bracelet lost several stones before we even made it out of Beijing.

Those Rickenfakers look awful. They are not quite the right shape, and their pickups look like someone made a model of a pickup without really understanding what it was for.

I wouldn't buy this stuff even at $2-300 a pop. Counterfeit concerns aside, they look like garbage.

 

[PBFACTOR]

anyone remember the "custom" basses listed on ebay a while back? it was something like $400. it was a picture of a spector 5 string neck through hanging on the wall. i'll bet it's the same guys.

 

[Gus Borden]

I just have to ask, Then why didn't he buy a Epiphone? You can get a very nice Epi for around $500.00 new.

He wanted the Gibson name.........

Not that I need to explain this AGAIN. It's not the need for a Gibson name. He's a Schecter ans BC Rich guy for over 20yrs, more curiosity. Already has an EPI.

 

[Mr wiggl3s]

I think you're taking some comments too personally since people sometimes write things in a way they probably wouldn't say them face to face.



I'm sure your friend had no idea he was doing anything wrong (even though he had to know the guys he was buying this thing from were).

According to Gibson: "Illegal merchandise entering the country offer great damages on many levels; and counterfeiting in the United States is a serious crime punishable in a court of law. By Federal statutes, selling and also owning counterfeit merchandise is a felony."

I see no point in even considering committing a felony by buying a Chinese bass.

It's good that your friend "experimented" and you posted this so we can all learn from it.

Ya? Actual citation bro, make with it.

You old ****s know better, this is the way the world works. What our laws are, and what theirs are, are different.

 

[joshwilkesbooth]

Yeah, I'm totally gonna buy one of those Rockenbauckers, or whatever the hell they're calling them.

Seriously. I'll keep you guys posted if you'd like?