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Fatten up D and G string notes?

Halvorsen

Halvorsen

Mar 7, 2008
106
6
Vermont
#1
I've come to a crossroads in my playing style and I need some advice.

For years, I've been playing my bass lines using the E and A strings for the root notes of a song, moving around and changing hand position as needed. I use the D and G strings mostly when I do fills, walks, or when adding melodics.

I do this not because I am unaware of how to play using all four strings in one position, but because I prefer the Fatter, rounder tone I get out of the two lower strings as compared to the Brighter thinner sound out of the D and G strings.

Lately, I've been experimenting with moving all the notes of a song to one hand position and using all 4 strings, like I'm sure most of you already do.

While I really would like to use this arguably better technique, I am having trouble accepting the loss of the round tone I get from playing mostly on the E and A strings when holding down a simple root note bass line.

My question is this: Is there anyway to Fatten up the notes on the D and G?

I've considered flats, thicker gauge strings, and maybe a 5 string so I could gain the extra positioning higher up on the neck, but I'd like to hear some opinions and advice.

Anyone else struggled with this?
 
#2
Halvorsen said:
I've come to a crossroads in my playing style and I need some advice.

For years, I've been playing my bass lines using the E and A strings for the root notes of a song, moving around and changing hand position as needed. I use the D and G strings mostly when I do fills, walks, or when adding melodics.

I do this not because I am unaware of how to play using all four strings in one position, but because I prefer the Fatter, rounder tone I get out of the two lower strings as compared to the Brighter thinner sound out of the D and G strings.

Lately, I've been experimenting with moving all the notes of a song to one hand position and using all 4 strings, like I'm sure most of you already do.

While I really would like to use this arguably better technique, I am having trouble accepting the loss of the round tone I get from playing mostly on the E and A strings when holding down a simple root note bass line.

My question is this: Is there anyway to Fatten up the notes on the D and G?

I've considered flats, thicker gauge strings, and maybe a 5 string so I could gain the extra positioning higher up on the neck, but I'd like to hear some opinions and advice.

Anyone else struggled with this?
Click to expand...

To me this is not struggling, it is a choice you made and actually a pretty good one to favor the tone you want to get.
Of course styles of music will be a factor to favor one approach vs. the other one. But always go for the best tone unless it helps to play better certain bass lines in position.

Working on less strings in Pop/Rock music will give you access to more tateful slides and glissandos also in your basslines while keeping a fatter tone because of the size of the strings but sometimes working in one position may be more precise in some situations.

Use both depending on the context of the music.
 
#3
One thing you could try is to raise the D/G side of your pickups a bit relative to the E/A side. Your goal is to add a bit of output to the D and G strings so that the net result is that the output of the four strings seems more even to the ear. But this is tricky, and a little can go a long way (or too far).

The problem with strings is that the D and G are generally the highest tension in a set, and bumping the gauges on the D and G will exacerbate this (and generally won't do much to increase the oomph missing from the D and G strings).

Another "solution," that is only a partial solution, is adjustable pole pickups (which I feel should be available on virtually every bass). With these, you can fine-tune the output of each string, but again, you can't get them all equal. The output may appear to be more similar in volume, but the tonal quality of the notes won't be.

To perform these adjustments, it's helpful to have some measure of output. I have an Alesis 3630 compressor that has great input/output/gain reduction LEDs that allow me to check and fine-tune each string on all of my basses, but at the end of it all, the best thing to do might be to play as you have been. If you want even timbre, change positions. If you can develop a more figured bass/counterpoint and upper melodic line style of playing, the differences between the E/A and D/G can become an asset rather than a hindrance.
 
#4
Within the last couple of years I've gotten out of the "box" I Was in. My goal was always economy of motion and being precise.
Lately I've been staying on the E and A on higher frets get a a fatter sound instead of using the D & G and it has opened up all kinds of new phrasing and helps me focus more on the phrasing of fills. I'm sure it's because this is kind of new to me.
I guess my point is that doing what would be normal in a new way is helpful- creatively. So it is good.
Having said that, I could never get the same nice fat sound on the D&G that I had on the upper frets of the E&A.
 
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#5
Good ideas and suggestions. I would also add that working on adjusting your technique can help as well. Try playing closer to the neck on the D and G, also using more of the finger than just the tip - I often play somewhat like an upright player, using the side of the fingers especially on the thinner strings.

What the OP talks about is something I've worked on my entire 25+ years of playing, and continue to. Flats do help I find, as does pickup adjustment (although there is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to getting close to the string with the pickup), in addition to technique as I mention above.
 
#6
I've had the same concerns for more than forty years. I've tried all kinds of things, including the recommendations made by others, above. Recently, however, I bought a short-scale bass to replace one that was stolen in the early seventies; that clinched it for me: IME, short-scale basses have a beefier timbre on the D and G strings than my 34" or 35" basses.

Check out this clip of the Eastwood Classic Four by Ed Friedland:
 
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#7
Raise your neck pickup(if you have one) under the D & G strings

Balanced tension strings(G & D are usually lighter and have a larger vibration) and higher action(more room for the string to vibrate) really help as well

Make sure you aren't cutting any low mids or boosting a lot of low bass.
 
#11
I don't think rising pick-up will help fatten the D and G strings. They will just sound louder. I agree with short-scale basses, there might be less difference in string length between the same note played on different strings compare to a 35" for example.

The particularity of a string instrument like the bass is the fact that we can play the exact same pitch on different strings and they will all sound different because of the string length and sizes.

Experimenting with Ab on the G string at first position, then play the same note on the D string, the A string and the E string. They will all sound different. There is nothing to do about that. I don't think it is possible to reproduce the fatness of a note played on the A string with the G string IMO.

I think because of that particularity we deal with, it is wise to learn how to use it at our best advantage when playing and choosing fingerings that will make the part
sound the best in context.
 
#12
Halvorsen said:
My question is this: Is there anyway to Fatten up the notes on the D and G?
Click to expand...

Basses with a real neck pickup solve this problem. Most basses have a bridge and a mid pickup or just a mid pickup like a p-bass or stingray. But a bass with a pickup in the neck position will have sweeter sounds and a fatter tone on the D and G strings. Basses like the Hofner, Rickenbacker, EB0, Eb3 to name a few. Basically putting a pickup somewhere around where the 24th fret would be gets you there. Obviously basses with 24 frets makes this a little problematic. But you average 20 fret bass can have a true neck pickup install. Or go get a Rickenbacke, Hofner, or Eb3 bass.

Some basses can achive this with pickups in the fender position ... like the t-bird. That is one of the reasons Entwistle went with the t-bird/fenderbird basses in the mid 70s. The p-bass didn't have the tone he wanted.
 
#13
Ric5 said:
Basses with a real neck pickup solve this problem. Most basses have a bridge and a mid pickup or just a mid pickup like a p-bass or stingray. But a bass with a pickup in the neck position will have sweeter sounds and a fatter tone on the D and G strings. Basses like the Hofner, Rickenbacker, EB0, Eb3 to name a few. Basically putting a pickup somewhere around where the 24th fret would be gets you there. Obviously basses with 24 frets makes this a little problematic. But you average 20 fret bass can have a true neck pickup install. Or go get a Rickenbacke, Hofner, or Eb3 bass.

Some basses can achive this with pickups in the fender position ... like the t-bird. That is one of the reasons Entwistle went with the t-bird/fenderbird basses in the mid 70s. The p-bass didn't have the tone he wanted.
Click to expand...
Interesting point here +1.

I just checked with my old Gibson EB-1 and because of a mix of short scale length, flatwounds and neck pickup, the differences are not so obvious when playing that Ab on different strings.
 
#14
I'm seriously thinking about stringing all my 4's BEAD for this reason and also to get the lower notes.

Using the 5th fret as "home" on my 5 string is making me want to do the same on my 4's. I like the tone up the neck and the frets are closer together which is a plus for my small hands and short fingers. I cant span 4 frets even on a short scale.

I do tend to get confused when reading tabs however. That is the only thing keeping me from dropping the G string on all my basses.
 
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#15
Halvorsen said:
I've come to a crossroads in my playing style and I need some advice.

For years, I've been playing my bass lines using the E and A strings for the root notes of a song, moving around and changing hand position as needed. I use the D and G strings mostly when I do fills, walks, or when adding melodics.

I do this not because I am unaware of how to play using all four strings in one position, but because I prefer the Fatter, rounder tone I get out of the two lower strings as compared to the Brighter thinner sound out of the D and G strings.

Lately, I've been experimenting with moving all the notes of a song to one hand position and using all 4 strings, like I'm sure most of you already do.

While I really would like to use this arguably better technique, I am having trouble accepting the loss of the round tone I get from playing mostly on the E and A strings when holding down a simple root note bass line.

My question is this: Is there anyway to Fatten up the notes on the D and G?

I've considered flats, thicker gauge strings, and maybe a 5 string so I could gain the extra positioning higher up on the neck, but I'd like to hear some opinions and advice.

Anyone else struggled with this?
Click to expand...



I personally PREFER having a difference in tone relative to note position, as I use the "fatter",beefy tones up high on the E and A strings for certain effect, and other times use the grindier, richer tones played lower on the D and G for times when that is called for.

However, I have been in country/roots bands and what I will suggest to you is try a set of flatwounds.

IMO they tend to be MUCH more consistent tonewise across the string sizes. Not perfect of course, but still much more consistent, and may help you find the balance you are looking for.
 
#17
Groove Master said:
I don't think rising pick-up will help fatten the D and G strings. They will just sound louder.
Click to expand...
Actually, raising and lowering the pickups does make a small difference in the ratio of fundamental to upper harmonics.

Another issue that hasn't been mentioned yet, is EQ and cab choices. Scooping the mids to make the low notes sound more complex, is naturally going to have an effect on the upper register. This is part of the reason that some people complain about MM basses having a thin sound on the G-string.

I use cabs with a flatter than average frequency response and relatively little EQ, and all of my basses sound pretty much the same across all four/five strings, even with fresh round wounds on them.
 
#19
hotrodjohn said:
Many use a compressor to fatten up the sound of the D and G strings - might want to give that a try
Click to expand...

This may help. Here's another consideration...

Improper or excessive EQing will suck the life out of your D & G strings if not careful. What sounds great whilst thumping the E string (...hey, we've all done it!) may appear anemic in the upper registers. I set my EQ using the A / D string-7th fret and then do an octave "bounce" with the A / E string-5th fret to balance out the response. Intentional mid-scoops are notorious for killing presence.

Riis
 

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