Favorite TRACE Amp of all time -

[Zbysek]

No room for a pre post toggle and the majority like giving FOH the tasty Trace sound rather than naked bass, so you'll have to get the TransitB or get a vanilla DI to go in front of Elf.

Just to clarify my post: I didn't ask for a pre/post toggle. I asked for the DI to be set pre (no toggle needed).

Having to bring an additional preamp to a gig defies the purpose of having micro amp such as ELF, IMO.

Are you really sure that what most bass players want is to make the sound engineer's life difficult every time they adjust the EQ on stage? What makes you think so? Has there been any poll conducted? I have disscussed the issue with number of sound engineers. Generally, they do not care whether they get the signal pre or post. But they hate if the signal changes after the sound check/during the gig. I have to say, I rely on what the sound technicians tell me about my DI. After all, they are the ones who hear and work with whatever I send them...

 

[Downunderwonder]

Just to clarify my post: I didn't ask for a pre/post toggle. I asked for the DI to be set pre (no toggle needed).

Having to bring an additional preamp to a gig defies the purpose of having micro amp such as ELF, IMO.

Are you really sure that what most bass players want is to make the sound engineer's life difficult every time they adjust the EQ on stage? What makes you think so? Has there been any poll conducted? I have disscussed the issue with number of sound engineers. Generally, they do not care whether they get the signal pre or post. But they hate if the signal changes after the sound check/during the gig. I have to say, I rely on what the sound technicians tell me about my DI. After all, they are the ones who hear and work with whatever I send them...

Dann straight I am sure. Read the satisfied reviews, of which there are many, where the post signal gets the big tick from sound guys. You can use your fingers to get huge tone changes with no EQ knob movement. No fireworks from FOH ever. Leave the knobs alone! Or use a DI before your amp if it's your thing. It ain't the Elf thing.

 

[Schlyder]

........ I have disscussed the issue with number of sound engineers. Generally, they do not care whether they get the signal pre or post. But they hate if the signal changes after the sound check/during the gig. I have to say, I rely on what the sound technicians tell me about my DI. After all, they are the ones who hear and work with whatever I send them...

So you are confined to one pre set tone through the entire spectrum of music you play? Fine I suppose if all the songs have the same bass tone. But what if you play a fretted jazz bass with rounds, for some songs, and then through a P bass with flats on a few tunes, and then a fretless for a few others, etc. You can't change any settings, just because the sound engineer is too lazy to do a proper job? They do it with guitarists all the time. Tell them that is what they are paid to do.

 

[Wasnex]

Just to clarify my post: I didn't ask for a pre/post toggle. I asked for the DI to be set pre (no toggle needed).

Having to bring an additional preamp to a gig defies the purpose of having micro amp such as ELF, IMO.

Are you really sure that what most bass players want is to make the sound engineer's life difficult every time they adjust the EQ on stage? What makes you think so? Has there been any poll conducted? I have disscussed the issue with number of sound engineers. Generally, they do not care whether they get the signal pre or post. But they hate if the signal changes after the sound check/during the gig. I have to say, I rely on what the sound technicians tell me about my DI. After all, they are the ones who hear and work with whatever I send them...

Perhaps not most, but many bass players think it's a good idea to set the DI post EQ, so their "sound" is sent to the mixing console. My opinion is it's better to use a mic if you want to authentically capture the sound of your rig. But then the audio tech has to deal with mic placement, stage wash, and any volume and EQ changes that occur during the show.

In my experience most audio techs provide a DI and a short 1/4" cable, and ask you to patch the DI between your bass and the input of your amp. I normally carry either a Countryman Type-85, Radial J48, or Radial JDI and prefer using one of these to relying on a DI built into my amp. Many audio techs prefer to use their own DI even if mine is better. This is understandable. Plug into an unfamiliar DI and the results could be surprising...and not the good kind.

 

[Wasnex]

So you are confined to one pre set tone through the entire spectrum of music you play? Fine I suppose if all the songs have the same bass tone. But what if you play a fretted jazz bass with rounds, for some songs, and then through a P bass with flats on a few tunes, and then a fretless for a few others, etc. You can't change any settings, just because the sound engineer is too lazy to do a proper job? They do it with guitarists all the time. Tell them that is what they are paid to do.

My preference would still be for you to plug your basses into a good DI unless you are using effects or cranking your amp into distortion. If channels are available, I could run a separate DI for each instrument if that worked for you. Or if the console is digital, I could save a channel preset with different EQ, gain structures, and monitor mixes for each instrument. It's really depends upon how much time is available and how involved you and the rest of the band wants to be.

As far as why I would be concerned if you change the volume or EQ you send to the mixing console. It's more because it screws up the monitor mixes than anything else. It's pretty easy for me to adjust the sound in the mains, but I can't exactly hear a true representation of every monitor mix from the mixing console. Usually if you do something that drastically changes the balance of the mixes, I'll use the trimmer on the front end of the channel strip to compensate so the balance in all mixes is restored.

 

[Zbysek]

So you are confined to one pre set tone through the entire spectrum of music you play? Fine I suppose if all the songs have the same bass tone. But what if you play a fretted jazz bass with rounds, for some songs, and then through a P bass with flats on a few tunes, and then a fretless for a few others, etc. You can't change any settings, just because the sound engineer is too lazy to do a proper job? They do it with guitarists all the time. Tell them that is what they are paid to do.

When I bring two or more instruments to a particular gig, I bring either two-channel preamp or two rigs. In such a case, I travel by car and am using standard amp(s). But that's not what I need the ELF for. I am using the ELF for situations when I want to travel light - just me, one bass over my shoulder, and a bag with micro cabinet and the ELF over the other shoulder.

 

[Zbysek]

As far as why I would be concerned if you change the volume or EQ you send to the mixing console. It's more because it screws up the monitor mixes than anything else. It's pretty easy for me to adjust the sound in the mains, but I can't exactly hear a true representation of every monitor mix from the mixing console. Usually if you do something that drastically changes the balance of the mixes, I'll use the trimmer on the front end of the channel strip to compensate so the balance in all mixes is restored.

Exactly.

 

[Zbysek]

Dann straight I am sure. Read the satisfied reviews, of which there are many, where the post signal gets the big tick from sound guys. You can use your fingers to get huge tone changes with no EQ knob movement. No fireworks from FOH ever. Leave the knobs alone! Or use a DI before your amp if it's your thing. It ain't the Elf thing.

Could you please kindly provide me with links/reference to such ELF's reviews by sound guys so I can read them? Thank you.

 

[Zbysek]

Perhaps not most, but many bass players think it's a good idea to set the DI post EQ, so their "sound" is sent to the mixing console.

I tend to think that "my sound" is created by my hands and my instrument. I am using the amp's EQ just to overcome acoustic deficiencies of the spot where my rig is placed (e.g. boomy stage, standing in a corner of a pub etc.). To achieve that, the EQ setting must be extreme sometimes. That's why I do not want it to influence the FOH. Typical situation: because of a boomy stage, I need to drastically reduce bass frequencies during the show. If I do it in the "post" regime, my bass suddenly disapears from the mix in the FOH. It may take the sound engineer some time before he finds out what happened. Still, he would then need to fight my adjustment (cutting the bass frequencies) with his own adjustment (boosting the bass frequencies). It just doesn't make sense to me.

External DI is a possible solution, that's true. However, in case of a micro amp like the ELF, my logic tells me that to enjoy the ELF's biggest advantage (low weight), no additional items which would add weight should be neccessary...

 

[Zbysek]

the majority like giving FOH the tasty Trace sound rather than naked bass...

My understanding is that there would be the tasty Trace baked-in sound, even if the DI was set pre EQ. If set pre-EQ, the DI would still be after the gain control....which is "THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ON THE WHOLE UNIT" (see Elf's manual, page 4)

 

[Omega Monkey]

I think the obvious solution is a "gnome" model (Trace you owe me some money if you use that!) that's slightly bigger, with more power (500w?), and more features. Including a pre/post switch for the DI.

 

[Zbysek]

I think the obvious solution is a "gnome" model (Trace you owe me some money if you use that!) that's slightly bigger, with more power (500w?), and more features. Including a pre/post switch for the DI.

Actually, I would go the other direction: professional nano head, 1/2 or 2/3 of the Elf's weight, very simple EQ (either bass and treble concentric potentiometer or parametric control which would allow cut or boost anywhere between 80Hz and 4kHz), DI pre EQ, 50-100watts into 4ohms, powered by phantom power. That's my dream.

As far as I know, there are lots of competitors on the mini amps market; there is only one product on the true micro amps market (the ELF); there has been no competition on the nano amps market....so far...

 

[Jack]

The amps with 12-band preamps and the blend between tube and solid state. Probably one of the most musical preamps ever.

Oh, and if you do anything rackmounted can we have an input on the back please? GK, Ashdown and many others don't seem to realise that rack tuners, wireless units and everything else all have all of their I/O at the back.

 

[Karlson541]

I love the sound of the old Trace Elliot amps, best tone I ever got, like it better than what I got ourt of the Ampeg B-15S I once owned even, guess the comparison isn't entirely fair though as they are completely different animals.
I can't say I have experience with a lot of different Trace Elliot models though, but the two I actually played on sounded stunningly great.

I originally bought my GP7SM 130W 15" 130W combo, that is my current main amp, and that I absolutely love the amazing tone of, because I had borrowed a Trace Elliot Serries 6 GP12 4x10" , 200W, I think, combo, from the rehearsal space of a band I played in at that time, and I fell in love with the tone right on the spot.


My vote goes to my GP7SM 130W 15" 130W combo though.

 

[Wasnex]

I tend to think that "my sound" is created by my hands and my instrument. I am using the amp's EQ just to overcome acoustic deficiencies of the spot where my rig is placed (e.g. boomy stage, standing in a corner of a pub etc.). To achieve that, the EQ setting must be extreme sometimes. That's why I do not want it to influence the FOH. Typical situation: because of a boomy stage, I need to drastically reduce bass frequencies during the show. If I do it in the "post" regime, my bass suddenly disapears from the mix in the FOH. It may take the sound engineer some time before he finds out what happened. Still, he would then need to fight my adjustment (cutting the bass frequencies) with his own adjustment (boosting the bass frequencies). It just doesn't make sense to me.

External DI is a possible solution, that's true. However, in case of a micro amp like the ELF, my logic tells me that to enjoy the ELF's biggest advantage (low weight), no additional items which would add weight should be neccessary...

My approach is similar to yours, but many players use their amp and speaker as a means to attain a specific tone. Also the EQ in many amps is not really even useful in compensating for variations in room acoustics. Basically you set the EQ to get a specific tone and pretty much leave it alone after that. With such an amps, I find an outboard EQ or even the tone controls on my bass is far more useful in compensating for room to room variation.

 

[Wasnex]

My understanding is that there would be the tasty Trace baked-in sound, even if the DI was set pre EQ. If set pre-EQ, the DI would still be after the gain control....which is "THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ON THE WHOLE UNIT" (see Elf's manual, page 4)

Normally a pre EQ DI is taken right after the first gain stage, which is usually before any baked in tone develops. The DI circuitry itself may be somewhat colored though.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I think the obvious solution is a "gnome" model (Trace you owe me some money if you use that!) that's slightly bigger, with more power (500w?), and more features. Including a pre/post switch for the DI.

Dibs on that! Search gnome and see who came up with it first!

 

[Red Planet]

So concerning the whole pre / post d i question regarding the elf I can unequivocally say since I own an elf that I wouldn't want to lose that baked in tone that the elf offers I want that sound in my d i But there again I'm one that would also want that good tone in the red e d i piped into an amp as well which you don't have the option to do that either.

You just absolutely got to love that baked in tone of the elf it's just a really good freaking tone I'm not saying it's a perfect piece of equipment or a perfect amp I constantly shut mine off with transience and that drives me bonkers but I absolutely love the tone of the thing and it's a great stand-alone d i it's very cool as a d i because you have that tone baked in thank you very much that will be 5995 please

 

[Karlson541]

None.

For me, Trace gear is solid rehearsal room gear, and almost universally loved only by slightly older blokes who remember when the brand was breaking new ground in the '80s and '90s. I've played through way too many Trace combos and heads with those annoying 'all or nothing' EQ push switches, the graphic EQ that doesn't really help (the 80 hz thing does nothing on a 115 combo that can't reproduce the fundamental of anything below the A string), and they all seem just a tad short on power when you want them to really deliver the goods. Nothing like having the port chuffing away when you try and keep up with a 30 watt Vox guitar combo.

The differences seem to be whether it is the combo with the scary UV light on the front, or the built in compressor... they all look fairly heinous and dated.

Like Ashdown, I've never played through a Trace amp I've genuinely liked. Like Ashdown they all seem to be loud, slightly unmusical Vanilla. Like Ashdown I seem to encounter bassists who think they are getting a nice warm, grinding and organic tone from their Trace gear, when in fact they are getting a clean, un-nuanced honk instead that they've simply grown massively too comfortable with.

To start off, your post in a thread like this doesn't make much sense to me.
The OP is asking for suggestions to help him bring back more of the old Trace Elliot tone, and I assume your mission despite all the negative crap you write after all is not to obtain the complete eradication of an amp and tone a lot of people who don't agree with your opinion actually love.
Not everyone has the same taste, as you might have discovered from own experience, just look at peoples taste in music.
Just because it differs from yours doesn't mean it is wrong.
That's the kind of mindset that starts wars, literally.

To comment on your subjective opinions from my view of things:
As the other guy who commented on your post I can start off where we agree, I too find the pre shape buttons on the Trace amps completely useless.
I love me some mids in my tone, thank you.
What's beyond that detail though I absolutely love.
Yes, I would be old enough to remember and have played in a band in the mid 90's where the Trace Elliot brand still existed independently, however that is not why I love their amps.
It wasn't until around 2010 that I discovered how great they sound and work for me, when I borrowed a GP12 Series 6 amp when rehearsing with my band, that they happened to have at their rehearsal space.
Since I bought my own GP7 SM amp, and it sounds just as great as the Series 6 did.
Best tone I ever had, and I used to play an Ampeg B-15S, which is also a great amp, just happen to prefer what the Trace does to my tone.
Yes, it does color my tone quite a bit, but to me that is an extremely desirable color.
I have no interest in a sterile Hi-Fi tone.
I still find the Trace tone to be a very articulate though.

Finally most people don't think about the the combos with the UV light on the front when they think Trace Elliot, those came after the iconic amps that people remember and love.
Haven't played one of those my self though, so can't comment on their tone, but I am of the same opinion as you, it does look kind of cheap.
Love the slightly more subtle red, green and black color scheme of the older amps though.

 

[Axstar]

To start off, your post in a thread like this doesn't make much sense to me.
The OP is asking for suggestions to help him bring back more of the old Trace Elliot tone, and I assume your mission despite all the negative crap you write after all is not to obtain the complete eradication of an amp and tone a lot of people who don't agree with your opinion actually love.
Not everyone has the same taste, as you might have discovered from own experience, just look at peoples taste in music.
Just because it differs from yours doesn't mean it is wrong.
That's the kind of mindset that starts wars, literally.

To comment on your subjective opinions from my view of things:
As the other guy who commented on your post I can start off where we agree, I too find the pre shape buttons on the Trace amps completely useless.
I love me some mids in my tone, thank you.
What's beyond that detail though I absolutely love.
Yes, I would be old enough to remember and have played in a band in the mid 90's where the Trace Elliot brand still existed independently, however that is not why I love their amps.
It wasn't until around 2010 that I discovered how great they sound and work for me, when I borrowed a GP12 Series 6 amp when rehearsing with my band, that they happened to have at their rehearsal space.
Since I bought my own GP7 SM amp, and it sounds just as great as the Series 6 did.
Best tone I ever had, and I used to play an Ampeg B-15S, which is also a great amp, just happen to prefer what the Trace does to my tone.
Yes, it does color my tone quite a bit, but to me that is an extremely desirable color.
I have no interest in a sterile Hi-Fi tone.
I still find the Trace tone to be a very articulate though.

Finally most people don't think about the the combos with the UV light on the front when they think Trace Elliot, those came after the iconic amps that people remember and love.
Haven't played one of those my self though, so can't comment on their tone, but I am of the same opinion as you, it does look kind of cheap.
Love the slightly more subtle red, green and black color scheme of the older amps though.

Too long; didn't read.