fEARful™ Part Ten (10)

[wcriley]

Leland,
If you're following this thread:
I just noticed that you have the 15/6 flatpacks listed on your site. Any idea when you'll have the 12/6 flatpacks ready?

 

[m.oreilly]

saaaweet! great price too. awesome!

 

[4Mal]

Are you saying the single 12/6 will maul the combo of 112XLT+12/sub?

I forgot to mention in my post above that after i would eventually build a 12/6 to replace the 112XLT if the sub goes well.

Right now I really like my sound with my current setup. I just don't feel like hauling that 410 around any more. So I was looking at the 12sub to support my 112xlt which is tuned more toward mid range frequencies. But if the single 12/6 is really the total package then maybe I should go that route, but that leaves me to question why are people building the sub version?

A 12.6 and 12 sub is a very happening setup. The cabs are voiced to work together. The 112xlt is 'clear' mostly because it doesn't attempt to do much down deep. You really should spend some time with a 12.6 - it's a killer cab. Putting the sub underneath makes it monsterous!

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

fEARFULs definitely caught my attention. I have been trying to disect these threads. I really like the modular design and the focus on trying to reproduce the sound of the instrument without colorization.

I'm familiar with Eden cabs. I think I have only heard a fEARFUL once live, but it was supported by a bigger PA. Hopefully someone can provide a frame of reference for me.

Is there anyone familiar with Eden 112XLT? I was wondering how that compares to the 12/6?

I have a 112XLT. They are really meant to be paired with other cabinets. By it self it is really weak in the low freqencies. A common setup is to pair the 112XLT with an Eden 210XST, which was voiced for lower frequency, but I pair mine with an older Eden 410T. To my ears this pair sounds great. The 112XLT is a really great cab for mid clarity, it just doesn't have the umph of something like 210XLT has in it. I like the 410, but I want to downsize to making tranporting easier. I also don't want to break the bank.

I was thinking maybe I'll build a 12sub of 15sub to pair with my 112XLT and then maybe eventually build a 12/6. The wiki says the subs are for extemely extended range basses.

People who have built 12subs and 15subs.... how do like them? Are they over kill for a standard bass? how do they sound as stand alone cabs vs paired with something?

I imagine a setup of the 112XLT paired with a fEARFUL sub will provide a really full clear sound. Anyone have insight on this setup?

I have owned a pair of 112XLTs and a bunch of other Eden gear. The cab you have has a definite mid/high bump. I never learned to like it, even with using a pair w/EQ. Yes, they "cut" through the mix, but make the bass stand apart from the song instead of melded into it. For the past year I have played a nEarful 15/6 and 12/6 made by LDS. Totally different cab design and the sound is too. To me, this new genre of cab sounds more like the bass has been mastered on a CD. Sell the XLT and don't look back. The new technology is worth the switch.

 

[Corporate Boy]

Yeah, I'm realizing my logic was flawed. What I don't like about the 112XLT is that it doesn't produce enough low end. The subs will have the opposite problem. so if I really want to downsize my entire rig, then the 12/6 is really the way to go because then I can use it as a single cab. My original intention was to make use of my 112XLT because I really like it's sound.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

The whole bit about light heads falling off and cabs walking is much overstated especially if its stiff and/or well braced. And we're still talking about 30-something pounds here, not 5 pounds.

My experience is that at an extremely loud club gig my LDS designed 15/6 moved alot all over the stage. In fact, if the song didnt end the cab would have fallen right off the back of the platform. The cab was jumping about 2 inches off the ground everytime I played a low note. However, there was nothing on top of the cab. I was close to maxing out my power amp / VT Bass for 1000w at 8 ohms and even though I was standing about 3 feet away from the drummer (and he was hitting hard) I could barely hear him. It was the loudest gig I've ever played.

Anyway light cabs and lots of volume IS a potential problem in my opinion and IME.

 

[Sundogue]

My experience is that at an extremely loud club gig my LDS designed 15/6 moved alot all over the stage. In fact, if the song didnt end the cab would have fallen right off the back of the platform. The cab was jumping about 2 inches off the ground everytime I played a low note. However, there was nothing on top of the cab. I was close to maxing out my power amp / VT Bass for 1000w at 8 ohms and even though I was standing about 3 feet away from the drummer (and he was hitting hard) I could barely hear him. It was the loudest gig I've ever played.

Anyway light cabs and lots of volume IS a potential problem in my opinion and IME.

Then it was improperly braced. Cabs bouncing around have less to do with weight than they do unnecessary vibrations in the panels.

 

[cableguy]

Whole thing (fEARful 15/6, Carvin BX1500, and Korg DTR-2) weighs in at ~73 lbs on my bathroom scale. It's heavy, but not absurdly so, and I like that I have everything I need in one package. My intention when I start playing out again is to get a beefy folding handcart for it.

73Lbs with amp is great considering my old 4X10 weigh 90lbs alone. Cool set-up.

And Corp. Boy,

My 12/6 could almost keep up with my 4x10. It rocks for it's size @39lbs. Once I add a 12/sub I think it will crush my old 4x10. I don't think I will use the 12/sub very often, because I won't have to. I will be nice when I do though. Should start the build next week.

 

[Foz]

Anyway light cabs and lots of volume IS a potential problem in my opinion and IME.

+1

Certainly can be... and poor bracing could make things worse, but I have made both a true to spec fEarful 15/6+1 and a true spec 15sub dance across a concrete floor. Both separately, and together! These cabs can handle enough watts to start walking unless they have appreciable weight and/or fairly soft feet. You may already have the weight/feet softness thing in order, or you may simply not ever drive your fEarful that hard, but they will do it - I know, I've done it.

If the feet/padding is such that the resonance of the "spring mounting" they create is at least a couple octaves below the cabs resonance then you don't need to add any weight to stop the walking. This is the same technique used to isolate the vibration of heavy equipment from a factory floor or to acoustically isolate a room with a "floating floor". If the spring is soft enough [low enough in resonance] it "eats" the vibration of the cab by matching the resonance and self damping through destructive interference - your cab will wiggle a bit, but it won't walk. If the Nidacore's prove to be a walking hazard for typical users, this would be the standard engineering solution [well this or putting a large weight on top which kinda defeats the purpose].

 

[BurningSkies]

My experience is that at an extremely loud club gig my LDS designed 15/6 moved alot all over the stage. In fact, if the song didnt end the cab would have fallen right off the back of the platform. The cab was jumping about 2 inches off the ground everytime I played a low note. However, there was nothing on top of the cab. I was close to maxing out my power amp / VT Bass for 1000w at 8 ohms and even though I was standing about 3 feet away from the drummer (and he was hitting hard) I could barely hear him. It was the loudest gig I've ever played.

Anyway light cabs and lots of volume IS a potential problem in my opinion and IME.

Then it was improperly braced. Cabs bouncing around have less to do with weight than they do unnecessary vibrations in the panels.

Seems to be a bracing problem to me too. I've played very very loud and very low with boosted EQ in the 40hz range and not had a problem. I did get really nice rubbery feet for my cabs though. I've not had it ever move, whether on hollow stages, carpeted floors or solid cement.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

+1

Certainly can be... and poor bracing could make things worse, but I have made both a true to spec fEarful 15/6+1 and a true spec 15sub dance across a concrete floor. Both separately, and together! These cabs can handle enough watts to start walking unless they have appreciable weight and/or fairly soft feet. You may already have the weight/feet softness thing in order, or you may simply not ever drive your fEarful that hard, but they will do it - I know, I've done it.

If the feet/padding is such that the resonance of the "spring mounting" they create is at least a couple octaves below the cabs resonance then you don't need to add any weight to stop the walking. This is the same technique used to isolate the vibration of heavy equipment from a factory floor or to acoustically isolate a room with a "floating floor". If the spring is soft enough [low enough in resonance] it "eats" the vibration of the cab by matching the resonance and self damping through destructive interference - your cab will wiggle a bit, but it won't walk. If the Nidacore's prove to be a walking hazard for typical users, this would be the standard engineering solution [well this or putting a large weight on top which kinda defeats the purpose].

The stage we were playing on was a 4 ft off the floor hollow jobbie. I think with a chunk of foam pad or carpet underneath with my 2u amp racked on top, it would solve the problem for me. We rarely play that loud anyway, so its not like its a big problem on a consistent basis.

 

[Interceptor]

Meanwhile, back in Midrangeville...

Ran an experiment tonight in my practice room with midrange levels. I centered one of the eqs at 1500 Hz and cranked it up to 7 (5 being flat.) I then played along with a couple of our songs at war volume, then put the eq back to flat, did the same thing again.

This was all done using a tilt back leg.

I heard more of the overtones - and it sounded good. Very good. The really wild part is it didn't get harsh at all. Very little difference in string hitting the fretboard.

I'm still learning how to bounce the eq off of the 12/6. It is opening up my ears.

 

[wcriley]

My glass of bourbon test took place on a concrete floor.
I have the large rubber feet that Leland sells, though. For my next test, I'll turn the cab on it's side so it's only supported by the plastic corner protectors. Need to buy some better bourbon, first. Only thing in the house at the moment is Jim Beam.

 

[Interceptor]

The bouncing cabinet thing isn't happening here. When I hammered the living crap out of mine looking to see if it buzzed it was on concrete and solid as a rock.

It is braced per the plan and has rubber feet.

 

[Nightlyraider]

FYI: the nearly 100 pounds that is a 400+ in a SUS-4 shockcase are enough to hold down your two 15/6's.

 

[Mjury02]

How important is using gasket tape on the mid speaker... I kind of had a brain fart when ordering that stuff, and only ordered enough for the 3015lf... If it's essential, what are some alternatives that can be bought at a place like autozone, wal-mart, or menards?

 

[3506string]

Finished up my bi-amped nEarfuls today. I still need to spend some time setting up the dsp on my xti.

 

[Foz]

How important is using gasket tape on the mid speaker...

i found it to be necessary... my mid eventually leaked squeakiness when I skipped it.

I have used thin self adhesive weather stripping from the hardware store... worked fine. Some here at TB have mention a similar automotive product. I bet probably anything that looks like it would work will work with reasonable care in installation, just get something soft and fairly thin.

 

[Mjury02]

I figured that I needed some sort of gasket... Thanks for the help Foz.

 

[PhiDeck]

Assuming the stage/floor is level, a moving cabinet indicates asymmetrical forces. As previously mentioned, the most likely cause is inadequate bracing. A less likely cause is undersizing the port, whether intentionally or inadvertently.