Fender American Design Experience

[awilkie84]

I agree that there's nothing strange or outlandish, but it's very easy to assemble a bass that's not available anywhere BUT through the ADE.

An LPB classic precision with a pearloid pickguard, BA style bridge, 58 pickups and jazz neck with blocks is a fairly unique combination... the simple fact that not a ton of them exist and you get a COA from Fender to verify it came from their factory that way adds to the collectibility somewhat.

I happen to love Antigua, but I agree that Fender enthusiasts are freaky about collectibility and originality, even if it is ugly... an all-original bass that has any kind if custom factor to it adds to that mystique that makes some collectors' mouths water.

See, those specs to me say that the ADE will be worth what an Am Std is on the used market. If you were to build the same thing, even if out of American parts yourself, you'd be much lower in price because it wasn't built that way. The CoA is the only thing that will leave it at the Am Std used resale value.

 

[Addison]

How will a bass that there might be only 20 or 30 that exist and AREN'T available in stores be worth what there are likely thousands of hanging on hooks all over the world?

 

[awilkie84]

How will a bass that there might be only 20 or 30 that exist and AREN'T available in stores be worth what there are likely thousands of hanging on hooks all over the world?

Because anyone can just go to the ADE & build it themselves? Just like anyone can just walk into a Fender dealer & buy a specific production combination. There's nothing unique about a "custom" design that's available to all.

 

[Addison]

First of all, there's a 90 day wait... people pay a premium to not have to wait. These aren't basses you can pluck off the shelves.

Second of all, what happens if ADE goes bye-bye? There are certain combos that may have as little as a few that were ever made. Judging from Fender's history, they could have a very good investment value.

Far greater than a typical American Standard.

 

[Son of Wobble]

First of all, there's a 90 day wait... people pay a premium to not have to wait. These aren't basses you can pluck off the shelves.

Second of all, what happens if ADE goes bye-bye? There are certain combos that may have as little as a few that were ever made. Judging from Fender's history, they could have a very good investment value.

Far greater than a typical American Standard.

If you are considering a Fender guitar assembled in 2014 as any kind of investment tool, then you falling prey to marketing concepts not dissimilar to those used on say, the buyer of a Franklin Mint commemorative Elvis decanter. Just because something is "rare" or "limited" does not make it valuable. Yes, there is the greater fool theory -- but that tulip already sailed, and the collector's guitar market is depressed. In fact, it is a buyer's market for guitars - and Fender is the most ubiquitous brand. Play one myself!

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

If you are considering a Fender guitar assembled in 2014 as any kind of investment tool, then you falling prey to marketing concepts not dissimilar to those used on say, the buyer of a Franklin Mint commemorative Elvis decanter. Just because something is "rare" or "limited" does not make it valuable. Yes, there is the greater fool theory -- but that tulip already sailed, and the collector's guitar market is depressed. In fact, it is a buyer's market for guitars - and Fender is the most ubiquitous brand. Play one myself!

But let us compare this to, say, a car.

Need I expand?

 

[Son of Wobble]

But let us compare this to, say, a car.

Need I expand?

Please don't.

 

[awilkie84]

But let us compare this to, say, a car.

Need I expand?

But it's not a car. It's a bunch of pre-produced parts combined to personal taste by a licensed worker. The only difference between a hobbyist building this bass from parts he ordered or purchased online & the technician is that the technician is "certified" by the company who paid to have the parts manufactured. What it comes down to is that the person ordering the guitar is paying more for the luxury of having the parts pre-assembled without having to hunt them down, and the cerfiticate of authenticity that basically says Fender put it together & not themselves.

IMO, that does not a higher resale value make. They're still just production parts from the same company combined in the same way.

If you go on Ford's Mustang builder, you can't mix & match parts from a Mustang & a Shelby. You have models to choose from. The reason the Shelby is so sought after & highly valued is that there will always only be a certain number produced. The ADE doesn't have a quota or limited run aspect. It's just "We have these parts; pick what you want."

 

[Son of Wobble]

But it's not a car. It's a bunch of pre-produced parts combined to personal taste by a licensed worker. The only difference between a hobbyist building this bass from parts he ordered or purchased online & the technician is that the technician is "certified" by the company who paid to have the parts manufactured. What it comes down to is that the person ordering the guitar is paying more for the luxury of having the parts pre-assembled without having to hunt them down, and the cerfiticate of authenticity that basically says Fender put it together & not themselves.

IMO, that does not a higher resale value make. They're still just production parts from the same company combined in the same way.

Very well articulated, Sir. I foresee these guitars selling on the used market for perhaps $200-$300 more than American Standards. Which is to say, around $1200 used, tops. I would think there won't be a HUGE amount of these on the used market because so many will have been built to dream specs and will thus be default "keepers." But there is no way the COA is going to bump the resale price up anywhere near sticker price. To Paraphrase GW Bush, a COA ain't nothing but a piece of paper. And and the gentleman above observes, these guitars ain't nothing but 'parts is parts.'

 

[Addison]

I didn't buy mine as an investment tool... I bought it because this was the first time in over 30 years that Fender offered basses with maple fingerboards to lefties and I wanted to show my support and finally get the bass I've always wanted.

Is it EXACTLY the bass I wanted? Nope... but I can't wait to get it anyway.

With that said, it is UNBELIEVABLE to me that a company like Fender can offer people MORE options and combinations than they've EVER HAD outside of the custom shop and they STILL COMPLAIN about EVERY detail.

Seriously... I'm sorry, but it's absurd. Do people here really not understand that you're getting more choices than what you had before to build a semi-custom instrument for very little more money than what you would have paid to Guitar Center to buy what thousands of other people have?

Apparently not.

The only thing I can imagine right now is the Fender brass reading a lot of this and scratching their heads and wondering why in the hell they gave us any choice at all. I can only imagine what a nightmare it must be for those guys to read some of what I've been reading here and on Facebook.

It's really too bad and honestly bums me out.

 

[bwoodman]

It's a lame experience. I got the email on this from Fender when it was first introduced, clicked on it, noticed that there aren't many options as mentioned like a natural finish or like P/J routing on the P bass. It's a joke. Nice try. It's about as lame as the Dimension bass which looks just like a Gibson - yeah, sooooo original. I built myself a real nice Warmoth P bass a couple years ago with a J neck, no face dots on the pau ferro board, PJ routing, Hipshot hardware, passive Seymour Duncan pups, tobacco burst finish, and finished it off with a chrome Warmoth logo on the headstock. I'd much rather have my Fender style Warmoth than a Fender! That new P bass style Carvin is ugly, so never even considered that one. IMO.

 

[Fletz]

I could go through this thread and pick,out the people who dont like anything fender does. And I would imagine most of the naysayers wouldn't buy one even if the absurd requests for custom shop basses at standard prices were offered simply because of the fender logo. There are some of us here that bought one because we liked something about it. None of the few of us who made the investment did it as a money maker - we did it because something about this appealed to us. Is it perfect? For now it is because I got to order a "parts" bass that's all fender parts, built by fender for me. That's enough for this bassist. It's not warmouth neck with wd pickguard on Squier body like I see fairly regularly here. It's fender on fender by fender in the US. I'll take one. And I did.

 

[Fletz]

It is also important to note that I researched every little piece of the order before I placed it. I have to admit, I kinda wanted to get the 64 Jazz neck - or even the 63 Precision - but I played all the neck options available on "off the shelf" models at Sam Ash and decided (and came to terms with) the neck I like the most on Fender basses are the new American Standard ones. And the Jazz one fit me nicely. I played different pickups as well and decided that the '58 tone fit what I wanted best. I also realized that I am totally into the HMV bridge that they've been putting on American Standards for the last 8 years or so. As much as I thought I wanted an AVRI built my way, turns out, I really like what Fender is building on their American Standards. Plus the Lake Placid Blue isn't available on American Standard P's right now, neither is a Jazz neck and neither are the '58 pickups.

I will admit, I almost went in solely on looks and built something that I probably would not have been happy with. The reality is though, haters be d*mned, this will be a fairly unique bass, made for me in a configuration that will be "rare"-ish. With a COA that I didn't cobble together parts but rather it was built (cobbled!) by American Fender techs with a warranty and quality specs.

Counting down the days ...

 

[Son of Wobble]

Counting down the days ...

She's a beaut. I commend you on your taste!

 

[Stranger Danger]

It is also important to note that I researched every little piece of the order before I placed it. I have to admit, I kinda wanted to get the 64 Jazz neck - or even the 63 Precision - but I played all the neck options available on "off the shelf" models at Sam Ash and decided (and came to terms with) the neck I like the most on Fender basses are the new American Standard ones. And the Jazz one fit me nicely. I played different pickups as well and decided that the '58 tone fit what I wanted best. I also realized that I am totally into the HMV bridge that they've been putting on American Standards for the last 8 years or so. As much as I thought I wanted an AVRI built my way, turns out, I really like what Fender is building on their American Standards. Plus the Lake Placid Blue isn't available on American Standard P's right now, neither is a Jazz neck and neither are the '58 pickups.



I will admit, I almost went in solely on looks and built something that I probably would not have been happy with. The reality is though, haters be d*mned, this will be a fairly unique bass, made for me in a configuration that will be "rare"-ish. With a COA that I didn't cobble together parts but rather it was built (cobbled!) by American Fender techs with a warranty and quality specs.



Counting down the days ...

I'm really curious about the '58 pups. Very nice build btw!

 

[Fletz]

I'm really curious about the '58 pups. Very nice build btw!

I think I posted it earlier, but my 4 1/2 year old daughter designed it (chose color of body, pg and fretboard).

I'll do a video comparison to the '63s in my current American Standard when I get this.

 

[StuartV]

The CoA is the only thing that will leave it at the Am Std used resale value.

I've owned a few Fenders - one MIJ and the rest American. I have never once even had it occur to me to ask for a CoA when buying one. And even if one were presented, why would that mean anything to me? Unless maybe it were some limited edition special model that Fender produced?

I mean, if it's just a CoA for a Fender P bass (which doesn't list color, pickguard, pickups, or hardware, does it?) how would I know that the bass I'm looking at is REALLY still identical to what Fender produced? How would I know it wasn't a Mighty Mite body that was painted the same color as the original, for example? Or that the pickups were the original ones? Etc..

For something like a FADE bass, I don't see the CoA adding anything at all to the resale value. Further, as a consumer, if I were shopping for, say, a P bass, if I saw an Am Std, I would KNOW what to expect and what an appropriate used price would be. If, on the other hand, I saw it was a FADE bass, then who knows what the true specs are. I would probably tend to shy away from a FADE more than I would an Am Std. Which I would expect to cause resale prices to generally trend lower. Though I would also expect to see specific instances where resale would actually be higher because the color combo, etc., turned out to have broad appeal.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

But it's not a car. It's a bunch of pre-produced parts combined to personal taste by a licensed worker. The only difference between a hobbyist building this bass from parts he ordered or purchased online & the technician is that the technician is "certified" by the company who paid to have the parts manufactured. What it comes down to is that the person ordering the guitar is paying more for the luxury of having the parts pre-assembled without having to hunt them down, and the cerfiticate of authenticity that basically says Fender put it together & not themselves.

IMO, that does not a higher resale value make. They're still just production parts from the same company combined in the same way.

If you go on Ford's Mustang builder, you can't mix & match parts from a Mustang & a Shelby. You have models to choose from. The reason the Shelby is so sought after & highly valued is that there will always only be a certain number produced. The ADE doesn't have a quota or limited run aspect. It's just "We have these parts; pick what you want."

Apparently I *do* need to expand. In 10 years, that car is with nearly NOTHING. In 10 years, that bass is worth SOMETHING. Usually something decent - at least 60 to 70 percent of what you paid for it. In 30 years, it's declared "Vintage" and is now worth MORE than you paid for it. In 30 years, that that car has been compacted into a cube and is waiting to be melted and rendered and is likely worth about $75.

 

[Addison]

I've owned a few Fenders - one MIJ and the rest American. I have never once even had it occur to me to ask for a CoA when buying one. And even if one were presented, why would that mean anything to me? Unless maybe it were some limited edition special model that Fender produced?

I mean, if it's just a CoA for a Fender P bass (which doesn't list color, pickguard, pickups, or hardware, does it?) how would I know that the bass I'm looking at is REALLY still identical to what Fender produced? How would I know it wasn't a Mighty Mite body that was painted the same color as the original, for example? Or that the pickups were the original ones? Etc..

For something like a FADE bass, I don't see the CoA adding anything at all to the resale value. Further, as a consumer, if I were shopping for, say, a P bass, if I saw an Am Std, I would KNOW what to expect and what an appropriate used price would be. If, on the other hand, I saw it was a FADE bass, then who knows what the true specs are. I would probably tend to shy away from a FADE more than I would an Am Std. Which I would expect to cause resale prices to generally trend lower. Though I would also expect to see specific instances where resale would actually be higher because the color combo, etc., turned out to have broad appeal.

My Fender invoice gives a detailed list of every spec of the bass I put together, including a mockup image... regardless of whether or not the CoA has that same kind of detailed information, if the seller keeps the original invoice that should be plenty.

Even if neither of those are available, the buyer can easily make a quick call to Fender with the serial number to verify authenticity.

 

[Fletz]

I've owned a few Fenders - one MIJ and the rest American. I have never once even had it occur to me to ask for a CoA when buying one. And even if one were presented, why would that mean anything to me? Unless maybe it were some limited edition special model that Fender produced?



I mean, if it's just a CoA for a Fender P bass (which doesn't list color, pickguard, pickups, or hardware, does it?) how would I know that the bass I'm looking at is REALLY still identical to what Fender produced? How would I know it wasn't a Mighty Mite body that was painted the same color as the original, for example? Or that the pickups were the original ones? Etc..



For something like a FADE bass, I don't see the CoA adding anything at all to the resale value. Further, as a consumer, if I were shopping for, say, a P bass, if I saw an Am Std, I would KNOW what to expect and what an appropriate used price would be. If, on the other hand, I saw it was a FADE bass, then who knows what the true specs are. I would probably tend to shy away from a FADE more than I would an Am Std. Which I would expect to cause resale prices to generally trend lower. Though I would also expect to see specific instances where resale would actually be higher because the color combo, etc., turned out to have broad appeal.

You kinda addressed all the issues in your text there. I don't need a Certificate of Authenticity on a fender Am Standard because I will see the serial number on the headstock, see it says "Precision" or "jazz" under or near the logo, look at the body to see if it matches, take a cursory look at the pups and maybe look in the control cavity. Otherwise, it's fairly "safe."

If I were to sell the FADE I am buying (and, while is never plan to as my 4 year old girl picked all the stuff out, we all get GAS) and posted on talkbass: "f/s, 2014 fender p-bass with j-neck, 1958 avri pups and tort guard. Fender American Design bass" you would want to ensure that that's the way I bought it. It was built at the factory by fender techs and not slapped together by me with eBay bought parts. The "made in America by Fender" means something.

Purely a guess: an American standard P with bought separately American standard J neck, after market fender brand reissue pups would sell here in 10/10 condition for $600-$700. Because it has been modded. My bass, sold the day after I get it with the COA would fetch $900-$1000. (A loss to be sure). But still worth more because I can prove that no mods were performed to get this unique combo. You know where the work was done and that the bass has been less likely molested.