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Fender Decals On Non-Fender Basses

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I proudly play my Tokais on stage, but there is some reverse brand snobbery involved; they are distinct from later versions by their headstock shape and are recognized as early 'lawsuit' (sic) basses and are recognized for their quality by those in the know. Would I play (i.e. buy in the first place) a later version? Probably not, because I love the classic Fender look and I hate the '80s look of the later ones.

Am I vain and shallow? To a degree, yes, maybe very much so. My buying habits in all things are a strange mixture of snobbery, image consciousness, reverse snobbery (buying 'hip' cheaper versions of something, or patting myself on the back for not being sucked in by an expensive brand's image), quality, suitability, features, etc. Most of us are like this but few will admit it. But having marketed services and products for years maybe I'm a little more aware of how perceptions shape reality and am a bit more realistic about how I make my own decisions because I've studied how others do the same, and I tend to be ruthless about my own moral shortcomings and tendencies (or at least the ones I'm aware of).

Morally I wouldn't defend putting a Fender decal on a non Fender bass, but really don't care either way if or why someone chooses to. Let Fender defend their own brand, it's their image and profitability at stake, as paying to protect a brand is a necessary operating cost that is engendered by the very desired success of the brand itself.

scmd, I have a very particular example I was wondering what you would think of, since this seems to be a particularly important moral debate for you. If I had a stock Fender and wanted to replace the neck with a licensed Allparts one for a specific reason (e.g. different profile, etc), because Fender doesn't sell replacement necks, would putting a Fender decal on it still be a heinous crime?

If so, say I took a Fender bass and replaced the body with an aftermarket one, should I then have to scrape the Fender decal off?

The only reason I can see that this whole topic is so important to some people (unless they are involved with FMIC) is that they fear the cachet of their own instrument will somehow be diluted by these fakes. What else could possibly make it such an emotive subject. So I ask the folk here that want to sweat a confession from the 'posers' if there is not just a little of the same vanity and pretension in themselves as in those they are accusing?
 
So I ask the folk here that want to sweat a confession from the 'posers' if there is not just a little of the same vanity and pretension in themselves as in those they are accusing?

To be honest I could care less. I play basses that I like and work for me.


I play some brands that some people wouldn't be caught playing


For me the bass is a tool first. Not a fashion necessity.
 
Is it "vanity" to hope that people will refrain from copyright infringement and misrepresentation of merchandise?

Although I am a Fender endorser and do have an emotional connection to the brand and it's employees, I don't lose any sleep over this issue. But, at the same time, I'm saddened when so many in the TB community demonstrate such lack of respect (or knoweledge about) intellectual property rights. For decades, hardworking blue collar employees of FMIC have workd by their own sweat to make the 'Fender' brand a trusted and respected entitiy that puts food on their plates. FMIC is not just a bunch of millionaire corporate "suits" sitting around laughing about how rich they are. It's mostly middle class hourly employees that just want food for their kids. Openly supporting the counterfeitors who profit off of a brand they have no legitimate share in is not cool.

Is one pirated sticker making that much of a difference? Of course not. But the defense of it as a legitimate enterprise is saddening. Honestly, if even one kid gets his summer earnings ripped off by a fake Fender that he wasn't knoweledgeable enough to spot - that sucks! Slowly filling the market with fakes also does nothing to help out a fret-dresser in Corona, CA either! It's just one less instrument to legitimately build. One more fake Fender profitting someone with no business ethics.

We justify our 'questionable' actions everyday (me included!). But let's not pretend that we aren't making life a little more difficult for Fender and it's employees!
 
scmd, I have a very particular example I was wondering what you would think of, since this seems to be a particularly important moral debate for you. If I had a stock Fender and wanted to replace the neck with a licensed Allparts one for a specific reason (e.g. different profile, etc), because Fender doesn't sell replacement necks, would putting a Fender decal on it still be a heinous crime?

If so, say I took a Fender bass and replaced the body with an aftermarket one, should I then have to scrape the Fender decal off?

The only reason I can see that this whole topic is so important to some people (unless they are involved with FMIC) is that they fear the cachet of their own instrument will somehow be diluted by these fakes. What else could possibly make it such an emotive subject. So I ask the folk here that want to sweat a confession from the 'posers' if there is not just a little of the same vanity and pretension in themselves as in those they are accusing?

What the hell is wrong with playing with an AllParts neck without a fake decal?? Why take a FAKE decal and put it on anything?? If you apply a counterfeit label on any product, it's a fraud. As far as the body is concerned, no, you don't "have" to scrape off the label. Just leave the neck alone. (I shouldn't have even addressed that absurd question)


Let's be clear, the words "moral" and "heinous crime" are yours, not mine. If someone wants to throw a counterfeit label on a non-Fender guitar, hey, whatever floats your boat. What get's my goat are people who try to justify this kind of action as anything other than shameless posturing. The whole "tribute" and "aesthetic" tack that many here are using to justify this kind of thing is utter bilge. **You people are trying to pass off an inexpensive product as and expensive product to make yourself look "cool"** If you're going to be a poseur, JUST ADMIT IT!!

And the whole "I'll make sure the buyer knows when I sell it" line is ludicrous. Yah, you'll do that. And what will the 3rd or 4th guy who owns that bass do?? But you don't care, because it's out of your hands at that point.



What's ironic is that I'm not even that big a fan of Fender. But Fender's reputation and well being isn't the issue here. It's people performing verbal acrobatics trying to dodge being labeled a "cheeseball". Sorry guys, it ain't working.
 
Im picking up a SBMM Ray34 at the New Year, its the Black w/ matching headstock, i hate matching black headstocks, so ill be sanding the finish off and putting a musicman decal on it ..... The bass plays, sounds and looks like the real deal, all except it has S on the bridge and not E....
 
The only reason I can see that this whole topic is so important to some people (unless they are involved with FMIC) is that they fear the cachet of their own instrument will somehow be diluted by these fakes. What else could possibly make it such an emotive subject.

That's the way it appears, but I doubt that is the effect.

If people didn't want Fender basses or didn't want to be seen with them, that's when all this would stop. No one would apply a fake decal, and you wouldn't be able to give away a 50 year old bass.

That came close to happening in the 80's with their guitars.
 
What's ironic is that I'm not even that big a fan of Fender. But Fender's reputation and well being isn't the issue here. It's people performing verbal acrobatics trying to dodge being labeled a "cheeseball". Sorry guys, it ain't working.

I take issue with the posour lablel, because mine is on a bass that no one sees, or sees me play, so I ain't posing...but....

I am starting to see it as a "cheesball" thing to have done, and I like blank headstocks fine. With so much hatred towards the decal, I may just remove it because now, I am starting to see it as taking away from what is otherwise a great bass.:hmm:
 
I asked the original question. And was given many reasons why it is done.




My comments about posers is to those who expressed that they were. And they had no issues with being a poser.

I respect that.

I would have never even mentioned the poser aspect of the Fender decal fiasco had it not been for those who answered the original question honestly.

And I don't hear the self admitted posers getting all bent out of shape at my mere mention of posers with fake Fenders.
 
I have a warmoth, love it, considered putting a fender decal on it...decided against it, i get people who ask me all the time what type of bass it is, or even better...why i removed the fender decal...so it kind of works in my favor...people already think its a fender...and it sounds and plays better IMHO.
 
...I don't understand why so many get up in arms about it.

Within the past 24 hours, there have been at least 34 Fender basses posted in the classifieds. At least 17 of those have been modified, and are non-stock (tuners, pickups, preamps, different necks, etc.). There are several parts basses (including your own Jaguar / Jazz combo), including one with a replaced decal. The vast majority of those basses can be easily identified if you are familiar with Fender products and their options, or are willing to accept someone's parts build.

On the one with the replaced decal, the decal is wearing off, as it was not finished in that area. The seller DID mention this, which is a fair warning to the buyer. The problem is when someone resells it the next time and does not inform that buyer.

Obviously, the onus is on the buyer to decide whether a product is worth a certain amount, however, with the combination of awful, out-of-focus cell-phone camera pics, shoddy internet-speak, and the desire for people to make money, the opportunity for the seller to pull a fast one is there.
 
Within the past 24 hours, there have been at least 34 Fender basses posted in the classifieds. At least 17 of those have been modified, and are non-stock (tuners, pickups, preamps, different necks, etc.). There are several parts basses (including your own Jaguar / Jazz combo), including one with a replaced decal. The vast majority of those basses can be easily identified if you are familiar with Fender products and their options, or are willing to accept someone's parts build.

On the one with the replaced decal, the decal is wearing off, as it was not finished in that area. The seller DID mention this, which is a fair warning to the buyer. The problem is when someone resells it the next time and does not inform that buyer.

Obviously, the onus is on the buyer to decide whether a product is worth a certain amount, however, with the combination of awful, out-of-focus cell-phone camera pics, shoddy internet-speak, and the desire for people to make money, the opportunity for the seller to pull a fast one is there.

And this is why I use Paypal. If someone were dishonest with me about a modded bass, and would not give me a refund, I would have no problem contacting Paypal and getting my money back.

If someone were to sell a bass rebranded as a Fender, but was not truthful about it, I would hope they would be blacklisted from this site as well.
 
I take issue with the posour lablel, because mine is on a bass that no one sees, or sees me play, so I ain't posing...but....

I am starting to see it as a "cheesball" thing to have done, and I like blank headstocks fine. With so much hatred towards the decal, I may just remove it because now, I am starting to see it as taking away from what is otherwise a great bass.:hmm:

hallelujah+praise+the+lawd.jpg
 
They're not. They're Squiers.

Which are Fender products. What's with the hairsplitting semantics. Fender and Squire are the same, you just pay more for the fender than the Fender squire and fender uses cheaper parts in them. no different that getting gas for your car. You choose from three different octain levels at the pump but the name above the gas station doesn't change.

Do yourselves a favor and play a Steinberger like I do, good luck getting a decal on the headstock.....

Keep in mind Fender is Quality like Harley Davidson or Jack Daniels are quality. (Both suck but don't tell a diehard biker that.) I get a kick out of those who spend a tonne of cash and then Proudly wave the name around. The reson these guys are so defensive of the Fender logo is that it is the most valuable part of the bass.

Seriously, people that are getting all bent out of shape over the logo don't seem to care at all if you replace ANY other part of the bass with Fender products, just stay the heck away from the logo..... Shows me clearly what they value most about the bass.

-eSmith.
 
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