Totally. And despite opinions to the contrary, probably 80% or more of those people, and hobbyists in general, are not on Talkbass all day doing research on head stock decal fraud.
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Fender logos on Squier basses...
- Thread starter MarkoYYZ
- Start date
Totally. And despite opinions to the contrary, probably 80% or more of those people, and hobbyists in general, are not on Talkbass all day doing research on head stock decal fraud.
So your main concern is that it A) needs to say Squier on it and B) it should not be a forgery (I have argued against forgeries)
How about this:
I don't have any concerns. I just think it's a silly idea. I understand people putting Fender decals on blank headstocks but rebranding a Squier seems like a big waste of time.
That's a different debate though, but a lot of people are still bringing it up.
For those who do want to change the look of their bass, the OPs latest decal mockup provides a more honest alternative to the realistic decals that are used to scam people.
Actually, from what I can see, the new decal has the exact same words as a Squier VM, but they just have different placement.
Actually, even the real deal Squier doesn't specify if it's Classic Vibe or Vintage Modified, so these decals - whether the big logo is Fender or Squier (as per design on pg 2) - are actually more thorough than what the factory puts on in terms of clarifying that it's a "Squier Vintage Modified" at all.
A lot of Fender instruments are poorly labeled IMO. Others have brought up the Roadworn series - which is basically Fender making their own factory approved fakes - to other lines that aren't clear as to what the actual "series" a bass comes from.
You need to dig around online and become and expert to figure out which decals were made which years, and then you have to use 3rd party websites like the guitardaterproject to cross reference the serial # to check whether it's an original, an AVRI, a fake, etc... and to top that all off - you can't actually do this on Fender's official website. They really don't help themselves in this regard and make the fakes and forgeries that much harder to identify.
I know that in the minds of many that *any* change of decals is dishonest in some way. I didn't start this thread to question that (yet again), but since the re-branding of Squiers into Fenders is probably the #1 decal change that happens in music, is this one way to come at the issue in a less damaging way?
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That is not true in my case. I've been the victim of counterfeiting, so that's my only concern about it. As has been pointed out, it could get stolen, or sold by a relative after the owner has died unexpectedly. There is no way to guarantee that it will not end up in other hands. There are many first-time buyers that wouldn't know how to identify it as being fake.
Yes I did deliberately misunderstand your post
But my point still stays the same, whether a used bass is labelled as Squier or Fender, and whether you buy a Squier, Fender or any other brand, makes absolutely no difference to the only thing that matters to Fender (and all other major companies) money.
I again say that this dispute, allthough many think it harms Fender, it is not the case. Fender makes zero from used basses.
If a person buys a Squier convinced that is a Fender, this is usually a begginer, and one of two things happen:
1. They learn how to play bass, and at some point find out that their Fender is a fake, either when trying to sell it, or when becoming more educated on basses. In both cases it doesn't affect the reputation of the brand, only of the buyer.
2. They don't learn how to play bass, and will not buy another instrument anyway. In this case, the reputation of Fender may be lowered in the opinion of a player that doesn't really want to learn anyway. (if they did, they would stick at it on any intrument, my first bass was far worse than a rebranded Squier).
PLEASE NOTE: I AM IN NO WAY DEFENDING THE CHANGING THE LOGO, I am only pointing out that the logo change of Squier to Fender, damages Fender about as much as a Fiat rebranded as Ferrari damages Ferrari.
When it is a company that is selling fake new Fender´s, then that story is completely different.
It hurts the brand by having an inferior instrument wearing it. Someone could end up believing, and then spreading the word, that Fenders are crap based on an Affinity he thought was an MIA.Yes I did deliberately misunderstand your post
But my point still stays the same, whether a used bass is labelled as Squier or Fender, and whether you buy a Squier, Fender or any other brand, makes absolutely no difference to the only thing that matters to Fender (and all other major companies) money.
I again say that this dispute, allthough many think it harms Fender, it is not the case. Fender makes zero from used basses.
If a person buys a Squier convinced that is a Fender, this is usually a begginer, and one of two things happen:
1. They learn how to play bass, and at some point find out that their Fender is a fake, either when trying to sell it, or when becoming more educated on basses. In both cases it doesn't affect the reputation of the brand, only of the buyer.
2. They don't learn how to play bass, and will not buy another instrument anyway. In this case, the reputation of Fender may be lowered in the opinion of a player that doesn't really want to learn anyway. (if they did, they would stick at it on any intrument, my first bass was far worse than a rebranded Squier).
PLEASE NOTE: I AM IN NO WAY DEFENDING THE CHANGING THE LOGO, I am only pointing out that the logo change of Squier to Fender, damages Fender about as much as a Fiat rebranded as Ferrari damages Ferrari.
When it is a company that is selling fake new Fender´s, then that story is completely different.
Many people have been saying Fender is crap on here for ages, but they still sell more basses than anyone else
Seriously, I really do not care one way or the other, but I doubt that someone who thinks that their Affinity is a Fender MIA is going to do much damage to Fender.
It would take a unlikely set of circumstances for that to happen. First, it would have to be someone that people pay attention to when it comes to music gear. Second, that same person would also have to be, at the same time, completely oblivious to Fender and Squier products. Even then, one person saying MIA is crap is just that - one person. And people are here on TB every day saying real Fenders are crap... doesn't seem to matter.
Objecting on the basis of brand devaluation is just silly. It's far-fetched, and I doubt you care about Femder's bottom line or image. I mean, with some of the QC issues they have, it doesn't even seem like Fender cares about their brand image a lot of the time.
+1
It isn't unusual at all to see people on TB run down Fender products. Case in point: "I mean, with some of the QC issues they have, it doesn't even seem like Fender cares about their brand image a lot of the time."
It isn't unusual at all to see people on TB run down Fender products. Case in point: "I mean, with some of the QC issues they have, it doesn't even seem like Fender cares about their brand image a lot of the time."
I hear you. Does anyone know where I can get a couple Squier decals for my Fender American Deluxe P, and J basses, so people won't laugh at me when they see that I own such inferior instruments?
I didn't say that I objected to it for that reason.
What is "just silly" is people such as you trying to justify it.
I'm out.
You asked me to clarify my questions for you and I did, and now you're bowing out without answering a second time?
Click here - this post was directly for you, quoting you.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/fender-logos-squier-basses-1038005/index15.html#post15257827
.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I suppose if you really wanted to be a fraudster but didn't want to sand off the headstock and put on a new decal, you could sand of the Mexi serial number on the back of the headstock and put a serial number on the neck plate on a RW. Then it would be a faked old fake. It seems like way too much work for very little return. You can't play the decal or the serial number.
Problem here is that you don't even know what we're discussing. You seem to think we're here trying to justify selling fraudulent Fenders.
- Feb 8, 2005
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- Endorsing Artist: Bag End - Dean Markley - Thunderfunk
Fair enough, and that does indeed suck. I would never condone ripping people off.
But at the same time, I am not responsible for other peoples behavior. If I have a fake Fender, and I tell the guy buying it that it's fake, it is not my responsibility at all if he lies to someone else. Sorry, I cannot, will not and do not accept responsibilty for his actions.
In addition, your said it yourself "There is no way to guarantee that it will not end up in other hands." This is true. It's also true that there is no way to stop the practice.
I'm merely suggesting that doing something that might help somewhat is better than just taking the position that it shouldn't happen in the first place (even though it will) and doing nothing. Then perfect should not be the enemey of the good or the better.
