Fender MIM vs. Squier CV Playability

[carlthegroover]

I've been playing with both of my current basses, a Fender MIM Standard Jazz (own it for 8 months) and a Squier CV 50's Precision (own it for a month) equally, and I'm feeling a relatively big difference.

For some reason, I'm starting to feel more comfortable playing the CV's neck than the MIM's. I don't know, maybe it's because of the novelty of the former. Maybe the chunkier, glossier neck does fit my playing better. And I also find myself fretting the CV with less effort than the MIM, and I have had to tweak the Jazz neck a bit (truss rod, also experimenting with the action) and it is more playable, but not as comfortable as the CV P neck.

I wonder if anyone has had this experience as well. I remember a few people posting in various threads that they felt the Classic Vibe and Vintage Modified basses are superior to any MIM Fender. Maybe it has to do with playability, so I'm interested in hearing other people's experiences.

I am thinking that a solution would be to get a similar neck to the CV 50's P and replace the Jazz neck. Are they compatible? Do you know where can I get one (a CV P neck) in the Ottawa area? Well, I could consider any maple Precision neck.

Thanks.

 

[ghostdog93]

The CV 50's P has a squared heel and is not a drop in fit on the standard round neck pocket on most Ps and Js. Some modification may be needed.

Also, I would say the CV vs MIM debate is highly contentious at best. You can search the forum for the two dozen or so threads on the subject, but here's a condensed version in case you don't want to wade through them all: Some people think the MIMs are worth the extra money, some people think the CVs (and/or VMs) are better buys, but in the end get whatever one fits your needs best.

 

[mjl9787]

It might have nothing to do with Fender vs. Squier- maybe a P neck would just be more comfortable to you across the board.

But for what it's worth, I like my CV 60's J better than most MIM J's I've played.

 

[soulman969]

I haven't played any MIM Fender Basses but I've played and owned a number of MIA Jazz Basses over the years. I would put the tone, finish and playability of my CV Jazz up there with any of them except a Deluxe Jass I owned. That was a superior bass but it wasn't $1500 superior. Very soon I'll probably be in the market for a CV PBass too.

Instead of swapping necks why not go out and try a CV Jazz and see how you like the gloss neck on it compared to the necks on the two you own. Maybe you'll find that neck works just fine for you even with it's thinner profile. Right you can buy a new CVB Jazz for around $350 and I'm willing to bet you can find used for less. Mine ran me $250.

You should be able to sell the MIM Jazz for at least as much if not more than you paid for the CV. Of course the other option is to buy a CV Jazz and order a CV PBass neck for it. Do what ever feels right to you. None of them are bad choice.

 

[carlthegroover]

The CV 50's P has a squared heel and is not a drop in fit on the standard round neck pocket on most Ps and Js. Some modification may be needed.

Indeed. I've realized this, and it could be a problem. How about, perhaps, a Mexican or American Precision neck? Would it fit in the MIM Jazz?

Also, I would say the CV vs MIM debate is highly contentious at best. You can search the forum for the two dozen or so threads on the subject, but here's a condensed version in case you don't want to wade through them all: Some people think the MIMs are worth the extra money, some people think the CVs (and/or VMs) are better buys, but in the end get whatever one fits your needs best.

True, very true. But maybe they were right about the CVs playability, especially on the neck. Or maybe it's just me, and some people do prefer the MIM's necks. Or maybe there is a (common) difference between MIM Jazzes and MIM Precisions.

It might have nothing to do with Fender vs. Squier- maybe a P neck would just be more comfortable to you across the board.

But for what it's worth, I like my CV 60's J better than most MIM J's I've played.

Yeah, I think that sums it up. For some reason, I find that I have a harder time to fret on the MIM, especially near the nut, as compared to the CV in the same area. I was thinking maybe it's the strings. Maybe I should experiment with a lower gauge or less tension strings on the MIM.

I haven't played any MIM Fender Basses but I've played and owned a number of MIA Jazz Basses over the years. I would put the tone, finish and playability of my CV Jazz up there with any of them except a Deluxe Jass I owned. That was a superior bass but it wasn't $1500 superior. Very soon I'll probably be in the market for a CV PBass too.

Really? That's very good news. I do like the tone of my CV, a lot! I don't have experience with American Fenders, so I didn't know this. Yay!

Instead of swapping necks why not go out and try a CV Jazz and see how you like the gloss neck on it compared to the necks on the two you own. Maybe you'll find that neck works just fine for you even with it's thinner profile. Right you can buy a new CVB Jazz for around $350 and I'm willing to bet you can find used for less. Mine ran me $250.

You should be able to sell the MIM Jazz for at least as much if not more than you paid for the CV. Of course the other option is to buy a CV Jazz and order a CV PBass neck for it. Do what ever feels right to you. None of them are bad choice.

Oh, man, I'm tempted. I particularly love that CV Jazz with natural finish and block inlays. It makes me drool. But unfortunately I do not have the cash right now.

And, to be honest, I do not want to part with the MIM Jazz yet (which is my first ever bass, so maybe it's the sentimental value), so maybe I can have some luck and find an used Precision neck that fits.

 

[Miskatonic]

I've found that the differences in neck profiles doesn't seem to affect my playing as much as the fret size for whatever reason. I really like the smaller vintage size frets on the CV basses, and I like big p bass necks. MIM 50's p bass is on my list.

The short of that tangent is consider the fret size to see if that makes a difference for you.

 

[f.c.geil]

I'm still kicking myself for selling my CV PBass. I had several MIMs that weren't as good (playability and fit/finish), have an American Standard that isn't as good (see previous note), and have found nirvana with a Highway One - it's actually better than my CV was.

 

[EagleMoon]

I love all of the CV bass necks. They feel really broken in, with the rolled edges. Very smooth. The satin on the MIM necks has always felt cheap and uncomfortable to me.

 

[soulman969]

I've found that the differences in neck profiles doesn't seem to affect my playing as much as the fret size for whatever reason. I really like the smaller vintage size frets on the CV basses, and I like big p bass necks. MIM 50's p bass is on my list.

The short of that tangent is consider the fret size to see if that makes a difference for you.

I've found the same thing and it could because the first pro bass I owned we a 66 Jazz and this has all of the same feel and tone as that bass. Sorry I ever sold it, be worth a bloody fortune today.

 

[96tbird]

The vm jazz is the natural with block inlays, no?. The cv has dots and paint. VM jazz is superb.

I have the 50's p and VMJ, and love them both on their merits. The p has flats and is slick. I have found that the initial sticky feeling of the gloss has faded with use, slick and effortless.

 

[ghostdog93]

Indeed. I've realized this, and it could be a problem. How about, perhaps, a Mexican or American Precision neck? Would it fit in the MIM Jazz?

Any Fender, Squier or aftermarket P neck with the standard Fender heel specs (Allparts, USACG, Warmoth, Mighty Mite) should be a viable replacement. Not all of them will have the same frets and finish as the CV, so you might want to watch e-bay or the TB classifieds for someone selling a CV 60's Precision neck.

 

[f.c.geil]

...aftermarket P neck with the standard Fender heel specs (Allparts, USACG, Warmoth, Mighty Mite) should be a viable replacement. ...

Except that they don't fit correctly, and generally aren't built as well.

 

[cthomas5200]

Except that they don't fit correctly, and generally aren't built as well.

That hasn't been my experience. While I haven't done it with a P Bass, I have used Warmoth and AllParts necks for years as my go to replacements for stock Fenders. Fit and Finish has been outstanding. I have friends that have done it with USACG necks. Not cheap, but in my opinion they can be even better than the factory necks. Of course, YMMV.

 

[cthomas5200]

That hasn't been my experience. While I haven't done it with a P Bass, I have used Warmoth and AllParts necks for years as my go to replacements for stock Fenders. Fit and Finish has been outstanding. I have friends that have done it with USACG necks. Not cheap, but in my opinion they can be even better than the factory necks. Of course, YMMV.

Scratch that. Too early in the AM. I have only done this with American and Mexican made Fenders. I have heard and seen issues with Squires as specs are different.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...maybe there is a (common) difference between MIM Jazzes and MIM Precisions.

...For some reason, I find that I have a harder time to fret on the MIM, especially near the nut, as compared to the CV in the same area. I was thinking maybe it's the strings. Maybe I should experiment with a lower gauge or less tension strings on the MIM.

...maybe I can have some luck and find a used Precision neck that fits.

A given bass, whether it's a MIM a CV or a Custom Shop, isn't going to feel more comfortable to you just because of the price, or where it was made.

When you prefer the feel of one neck over another, it's because of actual mechanical differences in the way they fit your hand.

There are some good to your particular problem in the sentences I just quoted.

1. If you're having trouble fretting near the nut, that's not a truss rod or bridge adjustment problem. It suggests that the nut is too high on the Jazz. Get a cheap set of feeler gauges from an auto parts store, and check the string height at the first fret- you'll likely find that the Jazz is higher than the CV P-bass at the nut.

A little work with the fret files, or a quick visit to a good setup technician, and your troubles with the Jazz could be over.

2. Another setup issue that affects left hand comfort, is the fingerboard edges. Rolled edges feel more comfortable than hard ones (for most people, anyway), and rough fret ends also compromise comfort.

A few minutes invested in dressing the fretboard edges could also improve your comfort on the J. Once again, this is the kind of stuff that a really good tech takes care of.

3. Fret size is another thing to look at. It may be that you prefer the feel of vintage frets. One way to test this, is to try out a Jazz with smaller frets, like the Am Vintage '62.

4. A neck swap is the very last thing I would do, after these setup issues were already taken care of. Other people can tell what necks are what shape, but no-one else can advise you on what you'll like, because neck profiles are a very individual thing.

Don't make the mistake of buying an American Standard neck, or a Squier, or even a Sadowsky, because of recommendations from other people. Depending on your left hand position, the shape and size of your hand, etc., you may have a preference for big C shapes like the CV, skinny necks like a MIM J, vintage hard-V necks, or ???

The good news, is that the MIM J has a standard Fender pocket, so there's a whole world of Fender and aftermarket necks out there. If it does turn out that you favour big necks, then you'll be laughing. Most people prefer pencil necks, so fatties like the Am Vintage '62 P-bass necks tend to fetch lower prices...

 

[johnson79]

Great advice from Steve.

I just played a CV Jazz and P last night and was blown away by the Jazz neck. It was way beyond what I expected.

 

[carlthegroover]

So, summarizing what you guys have said, playability depends on a bunch of factors:

- Neck profile (thickness, edges)
- Neck curvature
- Neck finish
- Fret size
- Fret edges
- Nut height
- The strings themselves?
- Am I missing other factors?

And that most are personal choices? Hmmm, lots to ponder. I might be starting to agree with some of the answers about the fret sizes. The small, vintage frets in the CV 50's P do feel more comfy. But I might add that it is also the neck thickness, probably.

Maybe I'm one of the few who do like chunky necks. What makes me doubt this a little bit is that I've tried a few MM Stingrays in music shops, and the necks are baseball bats! Maybe those are just too chunky, but I didn't feel comfortable playing them.

The vm jazz is the natural with block inlays, no?. The cv has dots and paint. VM jazz is superb.

I have the 50's p and VMJ, and love them both on their merits. The p has flats and is slick. I have found that the initial sticky feeling of the gloss has faded with use, slick and effortless.

Yes, my bad. The gorgeous one (natural with block inlays) is the Vintage Modified. Now that's a looker! I also like the CV olympic white, but I prefer the natural by a lot, at least in terms of aesthetics.

And yes, the gloss may be a little sticky, but I'm actually fond of it (the gloss). Just wiping it down does the job for me.

 

[carlthegroover]

@ Steve Rolfeca - Supposedly, all those things were taken care of a few months ago when I asked for a thorough setup and fret filing.

The only thing the luthier couldn't remember (shockingly) is the brand and gauge of the new strings. While at first I found them kinda comfy, I've felt them less comfy as months have passed. That's why I ended up tweaking the truss rod a little bit for neck relief, and again, it felt more comfy until recently.

I'm just testing the idea of swapping the neck as an experiment, and because I don't want to get rid of this bass just yet (it's nice overall). And since I've been playing with the CV Precision, maybe my playing doesn't fit a Jazz neck as well as it fits a Precision neck.

 

[sammyp]

this summer i needed to get a new work horse tele for gigging ....got my hands on a CV 50s style at the local store and there wasn't a MIM that even tempted me.....i swapped the pups and the CV is now the best tele i have ever owned ....i have an american and an allparts assembled...i've also had MIMs

 

[sammyp]

So, summarizing what you guys have said, playability depends on a bunch of factors:

- Neck profile (thickness, edges)
- Neck curvature
- Neck finish
- Fret size
- Fret edges
- Nut height
- The strings themselves?
- Am I missing other factors?

you are correct....all these things add up but moreover sometimes guitars just have that magic for your hands and ears ....it's that simple!