Fender Rumble Club

[jfh2424]

So how do you guys deal with the fact that the DI is affected by the volume and gain knob? I don't really see another option besides buying a separate DI and bringing it on the gig.

Why in the world did Fender do this? Is it more expensive to do a DI that isn't affected by the volume and gain knob?

Is the line out also affected by the volume and gain knob?

All this is really a shame. Besides that, the 500 combo is really excellent.

John

 

[jfh2424]

Yup, I just read that the line out is also affected by the volume and gain knobs.

And I read Fender's explanation that they wanted to pass on the post eq sound through the DI and the Line out, therefore they included the volume and gain knob, too.

Wow, Fender really thinks we are boneheaded. Plenty of companies have post eq DIs that are not affected by volume and gain knobs.

Is this really that expensive to design? Or produce? Otherwise, I can't understand why Fender would do this...

John

 

[GonePlaid]

Yup, I just read that the line out is also affected by the volume and gain knobs.

And I read Fender's explanation that they wanted to pass on the post eq sound through the DI and the Line out, therefore they included the volume and gain knob, too.

Wow, Fender really thinks we are boneheaded. Plenty of companies have post eq DIs that are not affected by volume and gain knobs.

Is this really that expensive to design? Or produce? Otherwise, I can't understand why Fender would do this...

John

We never have FOH any more and we don't run instruments through our PA(smallish rooms, no need),but-if/when that happens, I wanna send the sound I EQ to the board. Once it's there, I have no control over how a sound person fouls it up, but at least it starts out as the tone I wanna put out. I won't let a sound man put a DI in before the amp. My sounds, my choice. If a sound man demanded it, I'd tell him(her), Screw it, I'll play without going into the PA.
ETA: or they can mic the amp.

 

[Bottom Octave]

So how do you guys deal with the fact that the DI is affected by the volume and gain knob? I don't really see another option besides buying a separate DI and bringing it on the gig.

Why in the world did Fender do this? Is it more expensive to do a DI that isn't affected by the volume and gain knob?

Is the line out also affected by the volume and gain knob?

All this is really a shame. Besides that, the 500 combo is really excellent.

John

From my June 17 post on this subject:

Here are some numbers: With a nominal -40 dBu test tone at 400 Hz into the input of my Rumble 100 combo, all controls flat (12 o'clock position), I plugged the XLR output into a balanced input of a line level mixer and set the level to read -6 on the VU meter. Rotating the master clockwise from 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock raises the level by 9 dB to about +3VU. Rotating the master counter-clockwise from 12 o'clock to 9 o'clock reduces the level by about 12 dB to -18VU. So under these admittedly primitive test conditions, the sweep from 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock induces a change of about 21 dB (with steady-state tones, VU are equivalent to dB for all intents and purposes).

BUT, if you set the level on your sound reinforcement system after ballparking the master at, say, 12 o'clock, you're only changing that level by +9 or -12 dB even with fairly substantial changes in the master level. If your mixer channel fader is set at the unity gain position, there would be no adverse effects on clipping by raising the amp's master level as above, or on audible noise by lowering the amp's master level, with just about any well designed mixer. It's noteworthy that rotating the master control past 3 o'clock to the extreme clockwise position has little to no effect on the measured output level from the XLR line output (less than 2 dB), with my 100. That may be a result of the built-in delta-comp limiter, but with a -40 input signal, I doubt it.

 

[dfp]

Is this really that expensive to design? Or produce? Otherwise, I can't understand why Fender would do this...

John

If Fender puts everything you want in a 500$ amp you’re not likely to buy their $1,000 amp.... they make different products at different price points and I’m sure they are shrewd to not cancel one market with another... I thought of it just bc I was curious about it, but imagine you have millions of dollars riding on decisions like that... yeah, you don’t just overlook little things!

 

[G-Dog]

..., I wanna send the sound I EQ to the board. Once it's there, I have no control over how a sound person fouls it up, but at least it starts out as the tone I wanna put out. I won't let a sound man put a DI in before the amp. My sounds, my choice. If a sound man demanded it, I'd tell him(her), Screw it, I'll play without going into the PA.
ETA: or they can mic the amp.

This ^, all day long and way on into the night! I am the "artist" who learns, practices, rehearses, and crafts the tones for the songs I play and I take that responsibility for myself. A Post EQ XLR Out is the best way to reinforce my sound, next to mic'ing the amp. I don't understand why anyone would want to negate all their hard work in this area. I can't control what the sound technician may, or may not, think, know, believe, or does. Although I'm willing to try to work with them, if they can return the courtesy, they are not always pros that know what we, as musicians and as a band, have planned for the show.
.

 

[JPDsma]

Just a quick note regarding the discussion of using the Overdrive as a mute. I had not seen any mention of the 200cV3 on this, so I tested it. YES, setting drive and level at 0, depressing the OD will act as a Mute in the 200c as well.

 

[GonePlaid]

Just a quick note regarding the discussion of using the Overdrive as a mute. I had not seen any mention of the 200cV3 on this, so I tested it. YES, setting drive and level at 0, depressing the OD will act as a Mute in the 200c as well.

Yup, works like a champion trained hog.

 

[G-Dog]

Just a quick note regarding the discussion of using the Overdrive as a mute. I had not seen any mention of the 200cV3 on this, so I tested it. YES, setting drive and level at 0, depressing the OD will act as a Mute in the 200c as well.

Great! So, now we have confirmation that it works for the Rumbles 40, 100, 200c and 500h. Who's gonna test the rest?
.

 

[BlitzCraig]

So how do you guys deal with the fact that the DI is affected by the volume and gain knob? I don't really see another option besides buying a separate DI and bringing it on the gig.

Why in the world did Fender do this? Is it more expensive to do a DI that isn't affected by the volume and gain knob?

Is the line out also affected by the volume and gain knob?

All this is really a shame. Besides that, the 500 combo is really excellent.

John

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's essentially the closest thing you can get to mic'ing the cab without actually doing it, yes?

 

[G-Dog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's essentially the closest thing you can get to mic'ing the cab without actually doing it, yes?

Remove mic from cable, plug cable into Rumble XLR Out, there it is, your tone going to FOH and/or recorder. No crosstalk, no feedback.
.

 

[jfh2424]

I am the "artist" who learns, practices, rehearses, and crafts the tones for the songs I play and I take that responsibility for myself. A Post EQ XLR Out is the best way to reinforce my sound, next to mic'ing the amp. I don't understand why anyone would want to negate all their hard work in this area.
.

Well, I’m not an artist. I’m a semi pro bassist who works with artists who hire me and who will be upset if turning up or down on stage affects their mix. And since a part of my income comes from their view of me, it is a concern.

Maybe if I was an artist like yourself, I would be less concerned. But I’m not so...I wish Fender had included a post EQ DI unaffected by the volume knob.

You seem to feel that post EQ DIs have to be affected by volume knobs...i assure you this is not the case. Artists like yourself can craft their tone and pass their artistry to the board through built in DI that aren't affected by volume knobs. This is possible through other companies and, if I understand correctly, with the Fender stage 800.

John

 

[jfh2424]

If Fender puts everything you want in a 500$ amp you’re not likely to buy their $1,000 amp.... they make different products at different price points and I’m sure they are shrewd to not cancel one market with another... I thought of it just bc I was curious about it, but imagine you have millions of dollars riding on decisions like that... yeah, you don’t just overlook little things!

Ok so I guess Fender’s decision concerning the DI has to do with cost cutting. That’s a reasonable thing to do.

John

 

[LoveJackBruce]

This ^, all day long and way on into the night! I am the "artist" who learns, practices, rehearses, and crafts the tones for the songs I play and I take that responsibility for myself. A Post EQ XLR Out is the best way to reinforce my sound, next to mic'ing the amp. I don't understand why anyone would want to negate all their hard work in this area. I can't control what the sound technician may, or may not, think, know, believe, or does. Although I'm willing to try to work with them, if they can return the courtesy, they are not always pros that know what we, as musicians and as a band, have planned for the show.
.

EXACTLY

 

[Bobhmcs]

HAPPY 50th ANNIVERSARY WOODSTOCK!!!
Sorry I couldn't resist
Bob

 

[GonePlaid]

Well, I’m not an artist. I’m a semi pro bassist who works with artists who hire me and who will be upset if turning up or down on stage affects their mix. And since a part of my income comes from their view of me, it is a concern.

Maybe if I was an artist like yourself, I would be less concerned. But I’m not so...I wish Fender had included a post EQ DI unaffected by the volume knob.

You seem to feel that post EQ DIs have to be affected by volume knobs...i assure you this is not the case. Artists like yourself can craft their tone and pass their artistry to the board through built in DI that aren't affected by volume knobs. This is possible through other companies and, if I understand correctly, with the Fender stage 800.

John

I set my volume and EQ to the room before we begin and don't touch the amp again 'til we pack up. I make any adjustments at the bass or by my playing technique. I don't care what affects the on board DI, that's the signal I'm sending. Work with it.

 

[jmhaslip]

Well, I’m not an artist. I’m a semi pro bassist who works with artists who hire me and who will be upset if turning up or down on stage affects their mix. And since a part of my income comes from their view of me, it is a concern.

Maybe if I was an artist like yourself, I would be less concerned. But I’m not so...I wish Fender had included a post EQ DI unaffected by the volume knob.

You seem to feel that post EQ DIs have to be affected by volume knobs...i assure you this is not the case. Artists like yourself can craft their tone and pass their artistry to the board through built in DI that aren't affected by volume knobs. This is possible through other companies and, if I understand correctly, with the Fender stage 800.

John

I have a Rumble 500c and use the XLR out. I initially set a level loud enough to hear myself along with the rest of the band and leave it. This has never been an issue for me.

 

[GonePlaid]

I have a Rumble 500c and use the XLR out. I initially set a level loud enough to hear myself along with the rest of the band and leave it. This has never been an issue for me.

BINGO!

 

[dfp]

Ok so I guess Fender’s decision concerning the DI has to do with cost cutting. That’s a reasonable thing to do.

John

No, I’m not suggesting it is cost cutting or what we the consumer would call “reasonable,” it is shrewd business on their part: I’m suggesting, cynically I admit, and based on nothing but my own imagination and observing their various products, it probably has more to do with ensuring they have a product to sell to as many customers as possible, namely: the folks happy with the basic features for 500$ AND the folks who insist on the extra features at $1,000.... for instance, I coulda bought the Rumble but I didn’t like the EQ, and I do like a pre/post switch, etc... so I bought the Bassman 800... it doesn’t matter what it cost to make either amp, the bottom line is Fender made sure they had a product for the customer with the more critical or specific needs. If they were just cutting costs, they’d be ____.(insert low cost brand names).

 

[G-Dog]

I respectfully disagree, @jfh2424, you are most certainly an artist! Whether headliner or supporting musician, it's all an artistic effort, no matter how much science we try to throw into the mix.

IIUC, your main beef with most Rumbles' XLR Out is mainly the Post Master Volume part (and the Post Gain that affects volume level, too?), but not so much the Post EQ? You seem to agree that the bass shouldn't be the only tone-neutered instrument in the band. In that case, why not take heart that the volume level change is small-to-unnoticeable as tested by Rumblers here (see Wiki for links)? I think that's how many of us "deal with it", as you had asked.

Yes, I believe you are correct that the R800HD's XLR Out is not affected by the Master even in Post mode. The Bassman series has done this for many years, along with many other features missing on the Rumbles. I believe that reflects Fender's recognition that ”as technology improves, the expectation of performance/ features is filtering down to lower price points" as the Rumble series' heritage is certainly the lower price point. And, as more pros, like yourself, recognize the value of the Rumbles and give your valued feedback, I think the more Fender will respond.

Peace to you, sir.