Short answer: No. We'd hafta run ~75 feet of wire across the floor-thru tables, under trafficked areas, etc. It's only a 'problem' for the CDs/break music.
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From what I remember, medium height. Was too high, and not super low.
I think this guy is playing a Billy Sheehan attitude bass through a Rumble Stage 800. Sounds great…
Well, at the risk of beating the proverbial dead equine, the following were lifted from my VOX AC15 manual and my Fender Custom '68 Vibrolux Reverb manual, respectively. You can see why the confusion...
"13. STANDBY Switch
This switch allows the amplifier to attain the correct working temperature before applying the H.T. supply. Before connecting the amplifier to the Mains supply, ensure the Power and STANDBY switches are in the off position. Turn on the POWER switch first and then wait 2–3 minutes before turning on the STANDBY switch. Doing this each time you play helps prolong tube life.
The STANDBY switch is also very useful for playing live as it allows you to keep the valves at a functional temperature between sets."
"P. S TA N D B Y
— Switch to the "STANDBY" position during short
breaks instead of switching the POWER off to avoid the tube
warm up delay when returning to play the amplifier."
All of that aside, the Sweetwater article does make sense. But I believe my question on factuality is still valid.
Tim
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@trseal it does become confusing in light of what it states in the Fender manual and VOX manual you cite.
Let me see if I can make sense of it all.
The Fender link I sent at fender.com says to place in standby before turning the power switch on to prevent a voltage spike before the tubes are warmed up. That makes sense to me. The Sweetwater expert agrees with that sequence.
But in your Fender manual it makes no mention of that sequence. It just says to use for short breaks. That doesn’t make sense in light of the Sweetwater experts guidance below.
the VOX manual on the other hand says to do the opposite lol. To turn it on then wait a few minutes then turn the standby on. That doesn’t make sense to me. It’s not logical.
This is from the sweetwater tube expert:
“This myth started with a misunderstanding of the old RCA tube manual recommendation for using standby switches when running very, very high voltage radio station transmitter tubes. RCA was NOT talking about the tubes used in a guitar amplifier. The tubes used in guitar amps are the same type tubes used in Grandma and Grandpa’s old tube radio receivers, TV’s and record players, etc., which you never see with standby switches, do you? Therefore, why would a guitar amplifier be different than these other devices? Because they are not! Fender’s first “Tweed” amplifiers also did not have a standby switch!”
That makes sense right. It does to me.
the Sweetwater experts conclusion:
1. Only use the standby switch when warming-up of the amp
Don’t use it as a “beer break” switch. For short breaks, simply turn down the volume control (or mute switch if you have one) and don’t use the standby switch, so there is not that nasty pop in the house sound system that could damage speaker drivers. If the time between sound check and performing is longer than 20 minutes, turn the amplifier completely off. You only need 5 minutes at the most to completely warm up a tube amplifier.
2. The standby switch was only necessary when Leo Fender was designing less expensive amplifiers
It’s as simple as that. Why else would you use something that often pops loudly in the audio when used (remember I mentioned it cuts off the high voltage)? By the way, other brands did not use standby switches until Marshall copied Fender’s Bassman amplifier design and after the two biggest makers used these standby switches, everyone assumed you always had one on a guitar amp. Often, designers put these on amplifiers only because the public asks for them, not that they are needed. This is due to the power of the myth! These days we have other devices available to protect the capacitors and in general capacitors are much cheaper now and can be made to run at higher voltages without great cost.
3. Don’t worry if your tube amp doesn’t have a standby switch, it doesn’t need it!
Don’t put one on your amp because you were told it makes the tubes last longer! Is there a way to help my tubes last longer you say? The correct understanding of vacuum tube operational specifications prove there is no evidence that a standby switch can make your tubes last longer and actually could only hurt them if you overuse the standby mode.
So heres my takeaway:
I’m not sure what to make of your VOX manual. It’s not logical lol. They do make some great battery operated small guitar amps though!
The Fender.com link I posted agrees with the Sweetwater tube expert about the startup process.
1- Place in standby.
2- Power on. Wait 5 minutes before taking out of standby allowing the tubes to warm up.
Where they differ is using it in between breaks.
I think the Sweetwater expert makes more sense here. Why place it in standby for a short break. We did not have to place grandpas tube Radio or tube TV on standby. He states they are the same type of tubes and he’s a tube expert right. What he recommends is if it’s a longer break turn the amp off. Then turn it back on and give it a few minutes to warm up in standby mode when you turn it back on.
So if it was a long break and you turned the amp off when you arrive back on stage before you even put the bass back on turn the amp on. Then check your phone. Make sure nothings in your teeth from the free grub. Then put the bass on. Then check your tuning. Then throw something at the guitar player and tell him to turn the f…. down this set! (Cause we all know 6 string guitar players are the problem when it comes to volume) THEN take the amp out of standby.
And then there is the practical advice of our fellow Rumble TBers. @GonePlaid ”stumbled” on to the correct answer because he couldn’t get at the standby switch on stage so he just left the amp on and didn’t use the standby switch but experienced no problems making the Sweetwater experts case. THATS practical, strong, real world evidence that the Sweetwater tube expert is correct.
Also @Miles_ONeal has practical experience actually building and repairing tube amps and advises us that standby switches are not necessary. I appreciate his real world advice and would take that advice.
Does that all sound about right to you @trseal ?
Its why I originally asked for all of your views on whether it was ok to leave my Rumble on for extended periods. Based on the feedback I heard from you folks and real world experience I will turn my Rumble on at 8am and turn it off when my workday is done at 3pm. It may cost me an extra nickel a day for the wasted electric but it’s worth it to me! And I feel confident it won’t hurt my new baby. My now beloved Rumble 500. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
Let me see if I can make sense of it all.
The Fender link I sent at fender.com says to place in standby before turning the power switch on to prevent a voltage spike before the tubes are warmed up. That makes sense to me. The Sweetwater expert agrees with that sequence.
But in your Fender manual it makes no mention of that sequence. It just says to use for short breaks. That doesn’t make sense in light of the Sweetwater experts guidance below.
the VOX manual on the other hand says to do the opposite lol. To turn it on then wait a few minutes then turn the standby on. That doesn’t make sense to me. It’s not logical.
This is from the sweetwater tube expert:
“This myth started with a misunderstanding of the old RCA tube manual recommendation for using standby switches when running very, very high voltage radio station transmitter tubes. RCA was NOT talking about the tubes used in a guitar amplifier. The tubes used in guitar amps are the same type tubes used in Grandma and Grandpa’s old tube radio receivers, TV’s and record players, etc., which you never see with standby switches, do you? Therefore, why would a guitar amplifier be different than these other devices? Because they are not! Fender’s first “Tweed” amplifiers also did not have a standby switch!”
That makes sense right. It does to me.
the Sweetwater experts conclusion:
1. Only use the standby switch when warming-up of the amp
Don’t use it as a “beer break” switch. For short breaks, simply turn down the volume control (or mute switch if you have one) and don’t use the standby switch, so there is not that nasty pop in the house sound system that could damage speaker drivers. If the time between sound check and performing is longer than 20 minutes, turn the amplifier completely off. You only need 5 minutes at the most to completely warm up a tube amplifier.
2. The standby switch was only necessary when Leo Fender was designing less expensive amplifiers
It’s as simple as that. Why else would you use something that often pops loudly in the audio when used (remember I mentioned it cuts off the high voltage)? By the way, other brands did not use standby switches until Marshall copied Fender’s Bassman amplifier design and after the two biggest makers used these standby switches, everyone assumed you always had one on a guitar amp. Often, designers put these on amplifiers only because the public asks for them, not that they are needed. This is due to the power of the myth! These days we have other devices available to protect the capacitors and in general capacitors are much cheaper now and can be made to run at higher voltages without great cost.
3. Don’t worry if your tube amp doesn’t have a standby switch, it doesn’t need it!
Don’t put one on your amp because you were told it makes the tubes last longer! Is there a way to help my tubes last longer you say? The correct understanding of vacuum tube operational specifications prove there is no evidence that a standby switch can make your tubes last longer and actually could only hurt them if you overuse the standby mode.
So heres my takeaway:
I’m not sure what to make of your VOX manual. It’s not logical lol. They do make some great battery operated small guitar amps though!
The Fender.com link I posted agrees with the Sweetwater tube expert about the startup process.
1- Place in standby.
2- Power on. Wait 5 minutes before taking out of standby allowing the tubes to warm up.
Where they differ is using it in between breaks.
I think the Sweetwater expert makes more sense here. Why place it in standby for a short break. We did not have to place grandpas tube Radio or tube TV on standby. He states they are the same type of tubes and he’s a tube expert right. What he recommends is if it’s a longer break turn the amp off. Then turn it back on and give it a few minutes to warm up in standby mode when you turn it back on.
So if it was a long break and you turned the amp off when you arrive back on stage before you even put the bass back on turn the amp on. Then check your phone. Make sure nothings in your teeth from the free grub. Then put the bass on. Then check your tuning. Then throw something at the guitar player and tell him to turn the f…. down this set! (Cause we all know 6 string guitar players are the problem when it comes to volume) THEN take the amp out of standby.
And then there is the practical advice of our fellow Rumble TBers. @GonePlaid ”stumbled” on to the correct answer because he couldn’t get at the standby switch on stage so he just left the amp on and didn’t use the standby switch but experienced no problems making the Sweetwater experts case. THATS practical, strong, real world evidence that the Sweetwater tube expert is correct.
Also @Miles_ONeal has practical experience actually building and repairing tube amps and advises us that standby switches are not necessary. I appreciate his real world advice and would take that advice.
Does that all sound about right to you @trseal ?
Its why I originally asked for all of your views on whether it was ok to leave my Rumble on for extended periods. Based on the feedback I heard from you folks and real world experience I will turn my Rumble on at 8am and turn it off when my workday is done at 3pm. It may cost me an extra nickel a day for the wasted electric but it’s worth it to me! And I feel confident it won’t hurt my new baby. My now beloved Rumble 500. Thanks to everyone for the advice.
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Great, Michael! You've answered the question about tubes and standby switches.
Now, how about researching how long today's modern pc boards and components can stay powered up, when not in use, without affecting their average life expectancy to answer your original question?
.
That is a great idea @G-Dog and I will do that. Tomorrow. My brain hurts. Ahh if I were a younger man! Lol. Thanks…..Great, Michael! You've answered the question about tubes and standby switches.
Now, how about researching how long today's modern pc boards and components can stay powered up, when not in use, without affecting their average life expectancy to answer your original question?
.
Ha, if we were all younger...!
There have been times people told me afterward how much they enjoyed my playing. Then others whose ears I trust told me they could not hear the bass anywhere. So they liked what they heard, and because i was the most animated instrumentalist on stage, they assumed some of the cool stuff they heard came from me.
You’ll notice there’s no reference to the expertise of Jeff Owens. Most people who say this (if they have any basis beyond tradition) are referring to cathode stripping. Sweetwater, as it turns out, has a succinct response to that, which definitely mirrors what I know, so I’ll let them say it.
Invalid Link Removed
In the waning days of the Golden Age of Tubes, the dangers I heard of were related to directly heated (filament IS the cathode) tubes or high voltage tubes. This was reinforced during my time at WREK at Ga. Tech. Years later, I started hearing the argument that it may not occur at all.
Searching the web, I find no bio for Jeff Owens. He writes well about guitars and amps, for sure. He might be a marketing guy, a tech, or possibly an engineer, but there’s no hint that he really knows tubes.
If you reread carefully, it does. They refer to “silencing your guitar amp” during breaks as being a “useful function of the switch”, but tot the important one, by which they mean initial power on and warm up.
Well summarized. And I especially like point 2. No one else (including me) thought to bring that up here, but it’s true.
Great, Michael! You've answered the question about tubes and standby switches.
Now, how about researching how long today's modern pc boards and components can stay powered up, when not in use, without affecting their average life expectancy to answer your original question?
.
I’m far better with tubes, but will note that for most electronics, powering them on and off tends to wear them out more than leaving them on unless they have protection built in.
I bought my R100 used without a manual. Does the manual not reference this?
By the way, I’m not dissing or questioning Jeff. This was strictly a response to the early question someone had about expertise.
We're in for 4 hours and out for 2-3 weeks. Not worth the PITA. Plus, most of the ppl on that side of the room/bar just wanna BS.
Yes, since the early days of personal computers, with mechanical hard drives, there's been the eternal debate between leaving them on overnight & weekends vs shutting down = constant power vs cycling. Cycling the hard drives did seem to be their failure points more often than not. With today's SSDs I've still not read a convincing definitive argument one way or the other.
The Rumble 40/100/200/500 manual is linked at the bottom of the Rumble V3 Reviews section of your Rumble Club Wiki page. I don’t find a reference specifically to idling vs cycling. Maybe you, or others, can.
.
